Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

Awesome! Maybe more will fly the su27. At least it gives the su27 a bit more something.

I hadnt really flown air to air in sometime for Red because it had a significant disadvantage to the Mirage.

Whatever Cribob and team have done really helps... I still got smoked by a 530 from a M2K (and then a teamkill from a buddy SU27 who was being stupid with EO), but I felt like I could at least compete without hiding in the mountains.

Id like to see red keep it for a week or so, see how it plays out. Is it too much? I couldnt really tell from the 45 mins I got to play today, but I really really enjoyed the flight with the DL active.

TJ

I hadnt really flown air to air in sometime for Red because it had a significant disadvantage to the Mirage.

 

Whatever Cribob and team have done really helps... I still got smoked by a 530 from a M2K (and then a teamkill from a buddy SU27 who was being stupid with EO), but I felt like I could at least compete without hiding in the mountains.

 

Id like to see red keep it for a week or so, see how it plays out. Is it too much? I couldnt really tell from the 45 mins I got to play today, but I really really enjoyed the flight with the DL active.

 

TJ

Pretty sure who ever was connected to the "SERVER" as admin said that DL was on unintentionally, but I could be wrong.

Bring back DL!

Spectators see all again.

Bring back Datalink! Why was it disabled again?

The SU27 needs it to be competitive against the Mirage-Ball that blueflag currently is.

I just did some testing with EWRs on blue and red with the EWR 1L13 unit. I would be totally okay if the blueside gets the AI-GCI calls due to this unit, as long as the SU27 keeps the datalink.

If no datalink for the SU27, at least let it have R27ER, or R27ET if the ER is too. Remember only 2 ETs per SU27.

Pretty sure who ever was connected to the "SERVER" as admin said that DL was on unintentionally, but I could be wrong.

Yep- after the server restart they put a message up saying DL was a mistake.

WTF.. way to ruin the hopes and dreams... For a while we actually had more Su27s than Mirages.

TJ

Had DL... aaaand its gone.

The SU27 needs it to be competitive against the Mirage-Ball that blueflag currently is.

This is just simply not true.

Fixing the issue with too many Mirages won't be solved by buffing another aircraft above and beyond the current mission rule set.

Currently the co-pilot slot on Gazelles is bugged, some one requests to join the pilot 2 slot, you click their name and accept but nothing happens.. They don't join in.

Had DL... aaaand its gone.

Darn... I missed the party

Currently the co-pilot slot on Gazelles is bugged, some one requests to join the pilot 2 slot, you click their name and accept but nothing happens.. They don't join in.

Please test on another server and let me know if it works there - Nothings been turned off so dont see why it wouldnt work but can check if its working other places

Balance is a tricky subject.

 

In the end, we as BuddySpike can only do so much - the rest is up to YOU as a community.

 

If you feel there are too many Mirages, then don't fly Mirage - ask other teammates and friends to join you in other airframes and contribute to the mission in other ways.

 

The whole concept of BlueFlag requires teamwork and mixed airframes. If one team only does CAP then its unlikely they'll be able to advance very far, although they will also likely stop the other team advancing or make it very difficult - ending in a stalemate.

 

Remember - In the end, this is for fun and we try not to force anything, just nudge people towards certain play styles and hopefully towards teamwork :)

On Mirage ^^^^

DL - Accidentally enabled - Wont happen again for the time being - Sorry about that

FARPS - Each Farp base now has an actual FARP where you can rearm / refuel. You'll have to fly around a bit to find it as placement is a bit haphazard but didnt have much time

Map & Views should be fixed now.

Thanks Ciribob!

We'll test the Gazelle multicrew and get back to you via this thread.

This is just simply not true.

 

Fixing the issue with too many Mirages won't be solved by buffing another aircraft above and beyond the current mission rule set.

Above and beyond ... you do not understand what that means. Datalink is not an "I can win"-button. It gives a plane with poor performance, poor structural integrity (lol @ vert stabs), poor missiles, and poor situational awareness a small benefit. Just reducing the numbers of Mirages will not fix the problems that the SU27 had even before the Mirage was even a thing. Why don't you guys get it? Datalink was always an issue, in an 80's setting the SU27 should have Datalink, period.

It is always this way: "Don't buff the SU27 because mimimimimi blufor" seen this pattern since round 5. Even when there was no weapon restrictions the flanker did not have datalink.

Why not turn it on and leave it on for a week, is that too much to ask? This is still the testing phase. So let's test it!

It is always this way: "Don't buff the SU27 because mimimimimi blufor" seen this pattern since round 5.

On the contrary...I feel as if red players are the only ones speaking out to make this change for the very reasons you point out. I actually enjoy flying red more than blue and was assigned to red team when this conversation started.

It requires competitive level on the receiving end to deal with a Datalinked opponent.

On the contrary...I feel as if red players are the only ones speaking out to make this change for the very reasons you point out. I actually enjoy flying red more than blue and was assigned to red team when this conversation started.

Yeah because in terms of BVR blufor always dominated with better weapons and SA. Redfor always craved datalink just to be on some equal footing with blufor, when it comes to air engagements, but we were never given datalink.

It seems that datalink works in MP without any problem, as shown in by the 104th and the recent mistake made by the buddyspike team, and we still are not getting it. Why not is beyond me ... there is no good reason not to test it out how BF would behave with datalink.

I used to fly the SU27 only. Now, because I learned to fly the M2KC I only fly that machine because it is superior. The only downside to it is the limited load it can carry. It plays like a sniper. You can engage long range and you missiles are deadly AF. Where as in the SU27 you get killed so much easier, due to loss of SA when you are engaged and by the fact that your missiles are as effective as spitting against the wind.

This is a typical mindset of most players, "why mirage?" "cus it works!"

Please test on another server and let me know if it works there - Nothings been turned off so dont see why it wouldnt work but can check if its working other places

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Mirage ^^^^

 

 

 

DL - Accidentally enabled - Wont happen again for the time being - Sorry about that

 

 

 

FARPS - Each Farp base now has an actual FARP where you can rearm / refuel. You'll have to fly around a bit to find it as placement is a bit haphazard but didnt have much time

 

 

 

Map & Views should be fixed now.

Can we just get a definitive answer. Do you all ever see DL being enabled? If we had a straight answer we could point this conversation towards something more constructive.

TJ

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

On the contrary...I feel as if red players are the only ones speaking out to make this change for the very reasons you point out. I actually enjoy flying red more than blue and was assigned to red team when this conversation started.

Maybe here on the forums. I've talked to at least a couple of blue players and they don't have a problem with at least testing DL on the flanker.

In vents statement he's actually saying that it's blue always hating on the flanker and DL since round 5. I chatted on TS today while it was enabled and there was a consensus that a big reason a lot, not all, blue players don't like DL in BF or at all for that matter is because they don't have experience with the flanker in a competitive MP environment with limited payloads and therefore don't realize what a setback it is. You have to fly the flanker in BF to understand the situation it's in. I'm not saying you havnt flown the flanker in BF, I think you have, I'm just saying this is why we thought it was so hated. I was the same way when I started in BF. I only flew the A10 and therefore couldn't comprehend why the flanker needed any help. I thought it was even, but a big part of why the scores were even was due to pilot skill. Im not pooping on blue right now. This is how it was when. I started a few years ago.

Just a heads up, the flanker has never had DL, to my knowledge, in BF. Intially, if I understand correctly, it didn't when everything had full payloads because it was broken. Now it's just stick because people have assumed that it doesn't have it because it's broken. Now, I'm not saying all this is a fact , but it's the conclusion we reached.

I think it's at least worth testing. It is testing right? Even 104th now has DL enabled on all it's missions. All I'm saying is let's give it a try in testing. If it's deemed too good take it out, but we will be we know unless we try.

The issue that people aren't seeing regarding buffing the Su27 is the the proprietors of this discussion seem to keep applying incorrect tactics to take advantage of the Su27. I don't understand the logic behind the self-imposed authority on balance changes by people who employ the tools given to them incorrectly. Success is possible in the Su27 and that's an undeniable fact. You will have to use different tactics than a Mirage or F15, but that's the case for every airframe.

It sounds like when in an Su27 you're thinking gorgonzola when it's clearly brie time...then trying to change the rules to meet your expectations.

What do people think DataLink is going to do for a 1v1 fight (most common in BF) where DataLink radar coverage isn't an option? How is this supposed to support the claims and address the airframe, missile, radar, structural performance (all conjecture) that have been cited recently in this thread as the cause for the Su27's deficiencies?

It won't. If you want to solve the Mirage problem, solve the Mirage problem...don't create another with perceptions and personal failures with the Su27.

Yeah because in terms of BVR blufor always dominated with better weapons and SA. Redfor always craved datalink just to be on some equal footing with blufor, when it comes to air engagements, but we were never given datalink.

 

It seems that datalink works in MP without any problem, as shown in by the 104th and the recent mistake made by the buddyspike team, and we still are not getting it. Why not is beyond me ... there is no good reason not to test it out how BF would behave with datalink.

 

I used to fly the SU27 only. Now, because I learned to fly the M2KC I only fly that machine because it is superior. The only downside to it is the limited load it can carry. It plays like a sniper. You can engage long range and you missiles are deadly AF. Where as in the SU27 you get killed so much easier, due to loss of SA when you are engaged and by the fact that your missiles are as effective as spitting against the wind.

 

This is a typical mindset of most players, "why mirage?" "cus it works!"

How are you losing SA when engaging while in an Su27?

Yeah because in terms of BVR blufor always dominated with better weapons and SA. Redfor always craved datalink just to be on some equal footing with blufor, when it comes to air engagements, but we were never given datalink.

 

It seems that datalink works in MP without any problem, as shown in by the 104th and the recent mistake made by the buddyspike team, and we still are not getting it. Why not is beyond me ... there is no good reason not to test it out how BF would behave with datalink.

 

I used to fly the SU27 only. Now, because I learned to fly the M2KC I only fly that machine because it is superior. The only downside to it is the limited load it can carry. It plays like a sniper. You can engage long range and you missiles are deadly AF. Where as in the SU27 you get killed so much easier, due to loss of SA when you are engaged and by the fact that your missiles are as effective as spitting against the wind.

 

This is a typical mindset of most players, "why mirage?" "cus it works!"

Please can you stop talking about the Mirage? it's getting ridiculous, its NOT superior, its NOT better than any FC3 fighters, Matra 530 might be better or not in terms of maneuverability, but the radar is if anything worse than FC3 aircraft (Im not saying its bad, but is definitely not better than its counterparts, tends too loose track against notching very easily) and Missile+Radar comes togheter.

People aren´t spamming M2Ks because its better;

1- Only clickable 4th gen fighter.

2- Had 3 independent lives before.

3- Spawns with 100% fuel and takes less than a minute to spool up.

In terms of BFM is the worst capable fighter currently in DCS, specially now its flight model is being fixed (Generates a lot of unintended drag) and again, Im not saying its a bad fighter, but please stop with all the complaints. :doh:

How are you losing SA when engaging while in an Su27?

TL;DR : SPO-15 "Beryoza"

With the russian rwr system you lose all SA of potential threats, which is horrible to begin with. You only see a single threat at all times which direction and signal strength. When you are locked you lose all other potential threats, this makes you vulnerable to be ambushed from a different direction and even spoofed by pressing tactics. You never know if the missile behind you is same one that made you go defensive in the first place.

Having flown the SU27 extensively, I find the system in the Mirage much more capable in keeping me alive.

Not to mention that the Mirage is at almost every airfield for some strange reason. Specialize these slots to only a few select airbases and the problem is solved.

Please can you stop talking about the Mirage? it's getting ridiculous, its NOT superior, its NOT better than any FC3 fighters, Matra 530 might be better or not in terms of maneuverability, but the radar is if anything worse than FC3 aircraft (Im not saying its bad, but is definitely not better than its counterparts, tends too loose track against notching very easily) and Missile+Radar comes togheter.

 

People aren´t spamming M2Ks because its better;

 

1- Only clickable 4th gen fighter.

2- Had 3 independant lives before.

3- Spawns with 100% fuel and takes less than a minute to spool up.

 

In terms of BFM is the worst capable fighter currently in DCS, specially now its flight model is being fixed (Generates a lot of unintended drag) and again, Im not saying its a bad fighter, but please stop with all the complaints. :doh:

I take it, you are on blufor, huh? Go red fly the SU27 and get back to me on how mediocre the Mirage is in comparison.

530D only better in maneuverability? LoL. You can reacquire targets after you lost lock. Can't do that with any FC3 Missile. It is also way more energy than any FC3 missile.

It might be easier on the mission to just take all the F15s,29s and su27s and just put in M2000s. Problem solved!

Oh wait, not everyone owns the M2000 :-(

To Hawx,

Hes not complaining about the mirage. Hes complaining, as was I about it being all mirages. Most people take it for the full fuel load and 530s. Wouldn't hurt anyone just to give the redfor a bump on SA and ditch the fuel thing for all fighters. This might get some back into the FC3 aircraft instead of Mirage wars we have now.

Today while DL was enabled there was all 27s! It was beautiful.

I am not even a dedicated Red player.

Clickable cockpit thing is a joke. How many M2000s you see flying around in 104th? When I join, I take mirage because of BVR and I can jump in and go. Think I click 5 buttons the whole time I'm in it.

Edit: Can we stop quoting Abortedman. The ignore function does not work on quotes.