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Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9


gregzagk

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Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

 

If you then say, the 25 is fine on both sides, well ok, but now where do you draw the line. Where do you stop saying, but this one can do this and this one can't? It may be different when the 18 comes out, but until we get more modules it's really hard, especially for CAS and rotor, to only be single sided.

 

I'd love to give the mirage to Blue and try it. I still think after mulling it over for an hour or so that it would be a good idea. I do think something would then need to be done about the fuel imbalance but let's give it a whirl and see what happens.

 

TJ

 

Edit: and I agree on CAS. Nothing compares to the attack platform of the a10c. Not so sure on helos. I don't think the ten to fifteen knot difference in the Huey and mi8 make it worth it for both sides. I wish the gazelle could carry more ammo. Would be fun for Blue to have their own strike helo.

 

 

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Edited by Tj1376
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I'd love to give the mirage to Blue and try it. I still think after mulling it over for an hour or so that it would be a good idea. I do think something would then need to be done about the fuel imbalance but let's give it a whirl and see what happens.

 

TJ

 

Edit: and I agree on CAS. Nothing compares to the attack platform of the a10c. Not so sure on helos. I don't think the ten to fifteen knot difference in the Huey and mi8 make it worth it for both sides. I wish the gazelle could carry more ammo. Would be fun for Blue to have their own strike helo.

 

 

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If that happened I think you'd need to do the R77 or something for red to make the Mig more appealing, but maybe that's just me. I like flying against a couple different airframes and not just a single one. I also don't think the R77 is anywhere near as bad as the aim120. Again, maybe just me.

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Again, the reason you really can't put CAS and rotor on one side is because we don't have enough and the ones we have vary too much. Give me an A10C and I'd have an airfield closed by myself in 2 to 3 minutes last round with full defences and buildings. You can't put the SU25 on one side and the A10 on the other and have that be even because the frogfoot can't do it nearly that fast.

 

This doesn't need to be tit for tat balancing.

 

You can whine and say, change your tactics, but that doesn't work either.

 

Yes it does. If something does not work, try something else. Why does this need to be explained? I think that's where we disagree on gameplay.

 

Than on the other side, now blue doesn't have SEAD if the 25 is now only red. With missions that are the same on both sides, which I think work best for public servers, it's really hard to put CAS and rotor only on single sides.

 

It isn't hard. Both teams can have their strengths and weaknesses and do not need to be mirrored. That would separate this mission from other missions and it looks like it was the original goal of the creators until people started providing feedback that didn't align with that vision.

 

Example: Ka50 is a capable ground attack aircraft (A-10 with rotors and goes almost as fast). That's a strength of Red. A-10 is a capable ground attack. That's a strength of blue (or at least, should be since Red has it for some reason). Both are equally capable given the current setup of transit times/spawn location and their combat capability.


Edited by AbortedMan
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If that happened I think you'd need to do the R77 or something for red to make the Mig more appealing, but maybe that's just me. I like flying against a couple different airframes and not just a single one. I also don't think the R77 is anywhere near as bad as the aim120. Again, maybe just me.

 

How on Earth can you justify this suggestion of adding a long range missile in a mission where no long range missiles are available? Why does anything need to be made any more appealing on Red???? If you don't like the Red aircraft, don't choose Red!

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Hey,

 

I dunno if i should post it in this thread but since its all recorded in blue flag ill give it a try :)

 

I made a small kill comp video, i know i know a kill comp for a simulator is wierd but i just like making video's :D!!

 

 

Anyway i hope u enjoy!!

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This doesn't need to be tit for tat balancing.

 

It isn't hard. Both teams can have their strengths and weaknesses and do not need to be mirrored.

 

Pretty much this. People constantly crying out for balance need to chill out and learn to adapt. Things as they are now are mostly fine except for the Mirage being too popular issue. The only assets I understand being mixed is the 25 as it's the only SEAD capable asset and the Viggen for being the only anti-ship capable asset. Everything else is there because someone cried to get it. How can you complain about the KA-50 when you have the A-10, but "RED also has the A-10!!!", now we have to give BLUE a KA-50? See the issue?

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Datalink was taken out, What was the cause for the removal? It worked awesome yesterday!

 

Some map setup questions:

 

Will red get fighters at Maykop? Right now the west coast front line we have to take off from very far away. Blue has full setup at Gudauta. Logistically red can not keep up. We are having to fly to front and have about 3min play time then RTB to Maykop. Our RTB fuel is so much it kills our time on station. Stoping at Maykop to refuel after already waiting to fill the su27 tanks is getting crazy. We cannot use Sochi because the SA11s get drained by bombers, attackers, fighters upping so fast from Gudauta. Don't get me wrong about Gudauta. I love that blue has full setup there. Red planes suffer from fuel consumption much more than blue and the long flights from Anapa or Krymsk are killing us. Also we have no M2000s at Krymsk. No need for mig29s as you must stop for fuel at Maykop.

 

East side front isn't to bad, but our RTB at Belsan or Nalchik have no defenses. Hope this also gets addressed.

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Datalink was taken out, What was the cause for the removal? It worked awesome yesterday!

 

Some map setup questions:

 

Will red get fighters at Maykop? Right now the west coast front line we have to take off from very far away. Blue has full setup at Gudauta. Logistically red can not keep up. We are having to fly to front and have about 3min play time then RTB to Maykop. Our RTB fuel is so much it kills our time on station. Stoping at Maykop to refuel after already waiting to fill the su27 tanks is getting crazy. We cannot use Sochi because the SA11s get drained by bombers, attackers, fighters upping so fast from Gudauta. Don't get me wrong about Gudauta. I love that blue has full setup there. Red planes suffer from fuel consumption much more than blue and the long flights from Anapa or Krymsk are killing us. Also we have no M2000s at Krymsk. No need for mig29s as you must stop for fuel at Maykop.

 

East side front isn't to bad, but our RTB at Belsan or Nalchik have no defenses. Hope this also gets addressed.

 

Then use your team's strengths to your advantage and push the East side.

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Datalink was not taken out - it just only works in range of ground GCI - that was the plan at least and seems to work

 

You have to deploy EWRs which can only be loaded at airfields (Not FARP, ROADBASE etc) by choppers or TF :)

 

KA50 is not going to blue for now, as we want to keep some separation of airframes.

 

M2000 is a popular airframe, if it's only on one side, that side will have stacked numbers - simple as that. I'd rather avoid the rage about numbers per side again. :)

 

A change was made last night so friendly units within 10km of a friendly zone are not persisted. Ie you capture a zone and the units used to capture are removed

 

Man pads are terrifying , that's the point . Don't fly obvious routes and be ready with flares. CAP flights can do wild weasel down common routes to make sure they're clear if you ask them.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk


Edited by Ciribob

Scripts: Complete Transport And Logistics Deployment - CTLD / CTLD Examples - Lots of example of how to use CTLD

CSAR Script - Downed Pilot Rescue / Dedicated Server Script - Automatically launch DCS Multiplayer server at startup

Range Scoring Script - Get scores and counts hits on targets for gunnery or bombs / SimpleSlotBlock - Multiplayer dynamic Slot Blocking Script

 

Projects: DCS-SimpleRadio Standalone - DCS Radio Integration for All Aircraft - NO TeamSpeak Required! :)

DCS-SimpleRadio Troubleshooting Post / DCS-SimpleRadio Free Support Channel on Discord

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[...]

M2000 is a popular airframe, if it's only on one side, that side will have stacked numbers - simple as that. I'd rather avoid the rage about numbers per side again. :)

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

 

I guess all new aircrafts will be very popular. So I guess some people need to get used to seeing a red F-14 or F-18 after release, until adequate red side jets are released:music_whistling:

___________________________________________

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Looking forward to it, Belsimtek!:thumbup:

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Seems to be EWR bug. When trying to load one from vody, it said airfield belongs to other coalition. Great idea to have only airfields have them!

 

Vody was not refueling by itself lastnight. Was two guys online out of Krysk for one whole server rotation and Vody was always out of fuel. Since we owned fuel depot in pak, I thought it was to auto refuel ever so often.

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This doesn't need to be tit for tat balancing.

 

 

 

Yes it does. If something does not work, try something else. Why does this need to be explained? I think that's where we disagree on gameplay.

 

 

 

It isn't hard. Both teams can have their strengths and weaknesses and do not need to be mirrored. That would separate this mission from other missions and it looks like it was the original goal of the creators until people started providing feedback that didn't align with that vision.

 

Example: Ka50 is a capable ground attack aircraft (A-10 with rotors and goes almost as fast). That's a strength of Red. A-10 is a capable ground attack. That's a strength of blue (or at least, should be since Red has it for some reason). Both are equally capable given the current setup of transit times/spawn location and their combat capability.

 

Pretty much this. People constantly crying out for balance need to chill out and learn to adapt. Things as they are now are mostly fine except for the Mirage being too popular issue. The only assets I understand being mixed is the 25 as it's the only SEAD capable asset and the Viggen for being the only anti-ship capable asset. Everything else is there because someone cried to get it. How can you complain about the KA-50 when you have the A-10, but "RED also has the A-10!!!", now we have to give BLUE a KA-50? See the issue?

 

Let me preface this by saying this question is not meant to be mean or belittling or anything like that just want to know for something I was thinking about. This really goes for anyone arguing for CAS and rotor separation as I know how many rounds a lot of the players on the side Im for have been around for. It just seems we have a lot of new faces in this discussion and that is not an issue just want some more information so that I don't make an assumption..

 

How many rounds have both of you been through on blue flag? I mean real rounds and not testing. So that would be like actual round 8 for example.


Edited by M0ltar
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Seems to be EWR bug. When trying to load one from vody, it said airfield belongs to other coalition. Great idea to have only airfields have them!

 

Vody was not refueling by itself lastnight. Was two guys online out of Krysk for one whole server rotation and Vody was always out of fuel. Since we owned fuel depot in pak, I thought it was to auto refuel ever so often.

 

Fuel Bug should be fixed in next restart

 

Added more logging to getting EWR for Red

 

Please send a screenshot to me if it doesnt let you get it from an airfield / airbase and i'll try to fix

 

Thanks for bug report! :)

Scripts: Complete Transport And Logistics Deployment - CTLD / CTLD Examples - Lots of example of how to use CTLD

CSAR Script - Downed Pilot Rescue / Dedicated Server Script - Automatically launch DCS Multiplayer server at startup

Range Scoring Script - Get scores and counts hits on targets for gunnery or bombs / SimpleSlotBlock - Multiplayer dynamic Slot Blocking Script

 

Projects: DCS-SimpleRadio Standalone - DCS Radio Integration for All Aircraft - NO TeamSpeak Required! :)

DCS-SimpleRadio Troubleshooting Post / DCS-SimpleRadio Free Support Channel on Discord

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Let me preface this by saying this question is not meant to be mean or belittling or anything like that just want to know for something I was thinking about. This really goes for anyone arguing for CAS and rotor separation as I know how many rounds a lot of the players on the side Im for have been around for. It just seems we have a lot of new faces in this discussion and that is not an issue just want some more information so that I don't make an assumption..

 

How many rounds have both of you been through on blue flag? I mean real rounds and not testing. So that would be like actual round 8 for example.

 

I've been playing since round five and have won every round since then. I've seen tactics being applied by both sides on different rounds. When eagles had 120's they would push PAK's 1 & 2 as they were open terrain and they would dominate. As RED we would try to defend and hold out throughout the day against heavy odds until the Russians got on and pushed hard. CAS/Rotor separation never stood out as an issue, it was more fighting against Blue's huge odds.

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I've been playing since round five and have won every round since then. I've seen tactics being applied by both sides on different rounds. When eagles had 120's they would push PAK's 1 & 2 as they were open terrain and they would dominate. As RED we would try to defend and hold out throughout the day against heavy odds until the Russians got on and pushed hard. CAS/Rotor separation never stood out as an issue, it was more fighting against Blue's huge odds.

 

Now that I think about it, I do remember your name from around then.

 

The CAS/Rotor was an issue if you remember specifically because of the A10C. People can compare the Su25 and the Ka50 to the A10C, but an A10C in DCS they are not. The ground attack capability and the speed at which it does it is far far in front of the other 2. There were issues with it only being on one side because of this. Yes, the Ka50 is capable, but it can't take an airfield in anywhere near the time that the A10C can, even if the A10C has a rookie pilot, and that is why, again, there were problems.

 

Also, CAS/Rotor separation was not always a thing in Blue Flag. It was introduced in round 8 or 9? and a lot of people didn't like it because it gave certain sides a major advantage when the goals were the same on both sides. If you want different air frames on each side, make this like a real conflict where each side has a different goal or different assets protecting said goals, but again people will complain because of x, y, or z.

 

We can talk about tactics and such all day, but if you don't have an air frame that is as capable you are going to be at a disadvantage.

 

Also, you guys make it sound like its only red complaining. Blue complained about not having the Mi8 specifically because of its high altitude performance and its ability to climb. They also complained when the Ka50 had bombers for a couple of examples.

 

People in this thread, on both sides only provide the part of the story that paints them in a good light and act like this is a new argument, balance. This argument has been going on the entire time Blue Flag has existed and will continue to because people are passionate about this virtual campaign.

 

Again, yes separated air frames would be awesome, but we, here in DCS, do not have the number of different modules needed yet to make this a possibility unless we are going to make Red and Blue's objectives different or assets at each objective different. Even if you go down that road people will complain saying Red or Blue only has to do this and we have to do that. On top of that it is very very hard to balance something that is asymmetrical.


Edited by M0ltar
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@Ciribob... So can we please get Mistrals in place of the L's? To be honest they're useless as Thrud pointed out and it would be nice to have a little bit of self defense during heli squad flights. Hueys do the exact same job but better than the Gazelle L, more rockets and can carry troops, I'm actually kinda astonished you put L's instead of Mistrals if you had to make a choice O.o.

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@Ciribob... So can we please get Mistrals in place of the L's? To be honest they're useless as Thrud pointed out and it would be nice to have a little bit of self defense during heli squad flights. Hueys do the exact same job but better than the Gazelle L, more rockets and can carry troops, I'm actually kinda astonished you put L's instead of Mistrals if you had to make a choice O.o.

As I said..... I don't do the map normally.... You guys asked for M &L , I gave you M &L

 

Now you don't want L.

 

Sorry to astonish you.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Scripts: Complete Transport And Logistics Deployment - CTLD / CTLD Examples - Lots of example of how to use CTLD

CSAR Script - Downed Pilot Rescue / Dedicated Server Script - Automatically launch DCS Multiplayer server at startup

Range Scoring Script - Get scores and counts hits on targets for gunnery or bombs / SimpleSlotBlock - Multiplayer dynamic Slot Blocking Script

 

Projects: DCS-SimpleRadio Standalone - DCS Radio Integration for All Aircraft - NO TeamSpeak Required! :)

DCS-SimpleRadio Troubleshooting Post / DCS-SimpleRadio Free Support Channel on Discord

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I came on to the Blueflag server last Sunday after a probably a year (I stopped playing there due to the lag) hoping that the lag issues are fixed and to an extent, they are. So good job!

 

The problem is (I fly Redfor) whenever I engage a bandit, the target starts rubberbanding and doing crazy things. Point blank 5-7 km R-27R or T shots go crazy due to this rubberbanding effect. When asked on the game chat, some pilots claimed it was due to pilots using SRS radio. I'm not sure whether this is the actual reason, but I urge the organizers or admins of the server to have a look into it. You guys have a great campaign and thanks for all the hard work!

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L's can take down an entire farp. Some farps only have light trucks. If your calling L useless, your not employing it right.

 

Nothing against the mistral. Dont blame the L because you want a mistral.

 

Infact the replay I have of a few nights ago has you in an L clearing out red farp.

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We haven't been asking for the L though, since this testing round started where there hasn't been anything but M's we have been asking for Mistrals, in an escort flight for hueys and M's on blue side the Mistral is way more valuable to have than an L. Also what I meant Mia is that the Mistral is the better chopper out of the 2, as we don't have a method with in chopper flights to defend our selves from air threats. The Huey does the L's job better, same load out, but can carry troops, so why have the L at all?

 

*Edit as for you saying some farps are undefended and are just trucks etc.. I'm pretty sure that's non intended and once that's fixed how effective will the L be?

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I came on to the Blueflag server last Sunday after a probably a year (I stopped playing there due to the lag) hoping that the lag issues are fixed and to an extent, they are. So good job!

 

The problem is (I fly Redfor) whenever I engage a bandit, the target starts rubberbanding and doing crazy things. Point blank 5-7 km R-27R or T shots go crazy due to this rubberbanding effect. When asked on the game chat, some pilots claimed it was due to pilots using SRS radio. I'm not sure whether this is the actual reason, but I urge the organizers or admins of the server to have a look into it. You guys have a great campaign and thanks for all the hard work!

SRS has no effect on DCS, it uses different sockets, different protocols etc. It's no different to running teamspeak or discord at the same time as dcs.

 

When you lock someone and they lag, that's just dcs netcode or fps drop. Same as when you fire a missile and it lags

 

On mobile so can't find link - but search for setting dcs upload / download . It's worth adding that file to ensure dcs has enough bandwidth

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Scripts: Complete Transport And Logistics Deployment - CTLD / CTLD Examples - Lots of example of how to use CTLD

CSAR Script - Downed Pilot Rescue / Dedicated Server Script - Automatically launch DCS Multiplayer server at startup

Range Scoring Script - Get scores and counts hits on targets for gunnery or bombs / SimpleSlotBlock - Multiplayer dynamic Slot Blocking Script

 

Projects: DCS-SimpleRadio Standalone - DCS Radio Integration for All Aircraft - NO TeamSpeak Required! :)

DCS-SimpleRadio Troubleshooting Post / DCS-SimpleRadio Free Support Channel on Discord

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We haven't been asking for the L though, since this testing round started where there hasn't been anything but M's we have been asking for Mistrals, in an escort flight for hueys and M's on blue side the Mistral is way more valuable to have than an L. Also what I meant Mia is that the Mistral is the better chopper out of the 2, as we don't have a method with in chopper flights to defend our selves from air threats. The Huey does the L's job better, same load out, but can carry troops, so why have the L at all?

 

 

How about giving us the other Gazelles? or at least change some of the M slots to L or Mistral if you don't have time to make new slots. All of the FARP capturing testing will be inaccurate with out these variables.

 

^ Someone asking for L :P

 

As I said - I dont usually make the map. Sorry the L annoys you. It may change, I just dont have much time for the rest of the week and I think it needs a little more consensus.


Edited by Ciribob

Scripts: Complete Transport And Logistics Deployment - CTLD / CTLD Examples - Lots of example of how to use CTLD

CSAR Script - Downed Pilot Rescue / Dedicated Server Script - Automatically launch DCS Multiplayer server at startup

Range Scoring Script - Get scores and counts hits on targets for gunnery or bombs / SimpleSlotBlock - Multiplayer dynamic Slot Blocking Script

 

Projects: DCS-SimpleRadio Standalone - DCS Radio Integration for All Aircraft - NO TeamSpeak Required! :)

DCS-SimpleRadio Troubleshooting Post / DCS-SimpleRadio Free Support Channel on Discord

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