Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

It might be easier on the mission to just take all the F15s,29s and su27s and just put in M2000s. Problem solved!

 

Oh wait, not everyone owns the M2000 :-(

 

To Hawx,

 

Hes not complaining about the mirage. Hes complaining, as was I about it being all mirages. Most people take it for the full fuel load and 530s. Wouldn't hurt anyone just to give the redfor a bump on SA and ditch the fuel thing for all fighters. This might get some back into the FC3 aircraft instead of Mirage wars we have now.

 

 

Today while DL was enabled there was all 27s! It was beautiful.

I am not even a dedicated Red player.

 

Clickable cockpit thing is a joke. How many M2000s you see flying around in 104th? When I join, I take mirage because of BVR and I can jump in and go. Think I click 5 buttons the whole time I'm in it.

 

He is totally complaining about it, and my message goes to everyone who thinks the same (Many people do), clickable stuff makes the difference to more people than you think, I agree on removing fuel from the M2K. Changing its lives, spawn AFs and reducing fuel solves the issue.

Not to mention that the Mirage is at almost every airfield for some strange reason. Specialize these slots to only a few select airbases and the problem is solved.

 

That is all fine and dandy, but lets try to look at it objectively.

What is the problem in BF, or rather what is this discussion about?

Players only want to fly Mirages, and the reason for that is it's superior BVR capability compared to FC3 (among other reasons of course).

So there are two ways to solve this problem.

 

1:Make the Flanker more competitive with DL/improved SA.

(You can still restrict Mirage numbers, but then you will have to compensate the number of inferior aircraft with something.)

 

2:Force people to fly the inferior aircraft.

(This will make players unhappy)

The issue that people aren't seeing regarding buffing the Su27 is the the proprietors of this discussion seem to keep applying incorrect tactics to take advantage of the Su27. I don't understand the logic behind the self-imposed authority on balance changes by people who employ the tools given to them incorrectly. Success is possible in the Su27 and that's an undeniable fact. You will have to use different tactics than a Mirage or F15, but that's the case for every airframe.

 

It sounds like when in an Su27 you're thinking gorgonzola when it's clearly brie time...then trying to change the rules to meet your expectations.

 

What do people think DataLink is going to do for a 1v1 fight (most common in BF) where DataLink radar coverage isn't an option? How is this supposed to support the claims and address the airframe, missile, radar, structural performance (all conjecture) that have been cited recently in this thread as the cause for the Su27's deficiencies?

 

It won't. If you want to solve the Mirage problem, solve the Mirage problem...don't create another with perceptions and personal failures with the Su27.

 

You cannot be an AIR SUPERIORITY FIGHTER as you are supposed to be in the SU27, because you can't be superior or gain superiority in the Flanker in DCS and BF right now. Why is that? It is not necessarily because people employ the wrong tactics. There are situations especially in trying to gain the air superiority or trying to defend it, when you can't play it to the strengths of the Flanker.

 

In those regimes it is underperforming - which it shouldn't due to a unique characteristic like DL - and now you have to see it in the grander picture. If you can't defend well enough against the enemy you will lose ground, it is just that simple. When it is for example about providing CAP for helis or strikers you can't always have the Flankers in Flanking positions. Murphies Law applies. Most of the time you will not be in the ideal position to play all of your aces and when you are already at a disadvantage you will most certainly lose.

 

And I agree, you can be effective in the SU27 and drop bodies, when the situation allows for it, but if you are not it makes it so much harder, more so than in any other 4th gen fighter aircraft in the game. And THAT is the point we are all making in favor of datalink, or who in favor of buffing the overly nerfed SU27. This is not about buffing the SU27, but un-nerfing it.

He is totally complaining about it, and my message goes to everyone who thinks the same (Many people do), clickable stuff makes the difference to more people than you think, I agree on removing fuel from the M2K. Changing its lives, spawn AFs and reducing fuel solves the issue.

 

Did you think I was complaining about the numbers of M2kc in BF currenty? Well, I guess you are wrong. It is just a fact that right now it is a mirage-ball on blueflag.

 

The only thing I complain about is the ancient nerf of the SU27 having no datalink, but even with datalink I would continue to fly the m2kc. Hell even if you remove the fuel and force inertial alignment I would still rather fly it probably. It's BVR capabilities are just so much better than the Flankers currently.

Again, how is DataLink going to resolve the supposed structural, performance, missile, and radar issues people have cited previously in this discussion to start this whole balancing debate in the first place?

 

Often times there's a single Su27 tasked in an area due to the non-coordination of a group or series of groups of people. In what crazy alternative facts logic world does DataLink solve the issues that you people are pointing out?

 

First its missiles are the reason Su27 sucks, then it's the structural integrity during extreme maneuvers is the reason the Su27 sucks, then it's the refueling, then it's the radar that's holding it back...surely it can't be all these things.

 

Are you guys actually saying that the F15 has none of these similar challenges?

 

Have you even used the AIM7?

Are you really saying the Su27 needs one of the best SARH missiles as well as one of the best IR missiles to be competitive?

Are you really saying the Su27 doesn't maneuver as well as or better than the F15/Mirage?

Are you really saying the two extra minutes you need to wait for fueling is what's making you lose engagements in the Su27?

Are you really saying it's because you don't have DataLink that you're losing 1v1 engagements?

Are you really saying that with ten more azimuth degrees of radar range than the F15 and Mirage you're at a disadvantage?

Are you really saying that having EO radar is not a factor in this debate on the Su27's capabilities?

 

Is this real life?

Can we have a voice discussion about what we're trying to convey? I'm open to talking to anyone. Nothing hostile. I'd like to learn what others think outside of the context of the forums. This place can get very heated and I know in the past we've had some great discussions about balance on TS. I'll be on TS for a bit. Poke me or jump in if you want to chat.

Edited June 15, 2017 by M0ltar

There is no SA in the merge with the su27. There is no SA when you have multiple air threats in the su27. This is the disadvantage. The f15 and m2k have awesome rwrs and missile warning systems.

 

To overcome the crap RWR in the su27, we are asking for datalink. The two hours or so we had DL today were bliss. For the first time I felt like I could go into a situation and I'd know where my wingmen were, EVEN IF they had their radar on. Previously if my friends had their radar on my RWR was crap. (It's still crap, but at least I can now see their contacts when I'm nose cold.)

 

It's an interesting option that should be explored. I didn't know the 104th turned it back on and honestly after I saw BF had DL off I spent two hours on the 104th. It's not the same as BF, but I did have quite a bit of fun.

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's BVR capabilities are just so much better than the Flankers currently.

 

The Mirage tracks at 65nm and can lock at 50nm as per the manual and my in-game experience.

 

In my tests with the Su27 some time ago it can track a fighter sized target at 120km (65nm) and lock at 40nm.

 

I honestly wouldn't call that "just so much better", especially with the added detriment to the Mirage's radar being subject to clutter filtering and losing track/lock MUCH more probable. That isn't the case for the Su27's radar.

 

This is the stuff I'm talking about. Conjecture overcoming your testimony. This is definitely not the stuff that current balance issues should be criticized and manipulated by!

There is no SA in the merge with the su27. There is no SA when you have multiple air threats in the su27. This is the disadvantage. The f15 and m2k have awesome rwrs and missile warning systems.

 

To overcome the crap RWR in the su27, we are asking for datalink. The two hours or so we had DL today were bliss. For the first time I felt like I could go into a situation and I'd know where my wingmen were, EVEN IF they had their radar on. Previously if my friends had their radar on my RWR was crap. (It's still crap, but at least I can now see their contacts when I'm nose cold.)

 

It's an interesting option that should be explored. I didn't know the 104th turned it back on and honestly after I saw BF had DL off I spent two hours on the 104th. It's not the same as BF, but I did have quite a bit of fun.

 

TJ

 

Two things:

 

1. Learn to use the Russian RWR. It actually does give information on multiple contacts. It gives more information than the Mirage/F15 RWR like radar strength/distance as well as relative altitude. You don't have distance information on the Western RWR...the symbols in closer/further away from the center are not distances (like 99% of people think). It's the computer using whatever algorithm to tell you what is the biggest threat, but it does not have context in which that threat is presented.

 

2. Why do you want BF to be like 104th so badly? That's exactly what I would hope people do not want to happen. I play on Blue Flag because I do not enjoy the missions on 104th or Open Conflict. Is that the goal here...to turn Blue Flag into 104th?

Two things:

 

 

 

1. Learn to use the Russian RWR. It actually does give information on multiple contacts. It gives more information than the Mirage/F15 RWR like radar strength/distance as well as relative altitude. You don't have distance information on the Western RWR...the symbols in closer/further away from the center are not distances (like 99% of people think). It's the computer using whatever algorithm to tell you what is the biggest threat, but it does not have context in which that threat is presented.

 

 

 

2. Why do you want BF to be like 104th so badly? That's exactly what I would hope people do not want to happen. I play on Blue Flag because I do not enjoy the missions on 104th or Open Conflict. Is that the goal here...to turn Blue Flag into 104th?

 

 

Aborted-

 

You need to learn your f15 and m2k RWR. It does give you distance info, it just doesn't give the distance info you think it gives. The Russian RWR does the same through signal strength. You have to learn what that means on BF because of the lack of long range missiles. I know if it's an f15, he can't fire until there are only two dots unlit. M2k is 3 dots. But how do I know if it's a f15 or a M2k? I DONT.

 

Yes, the Russian RWR will tell me of one other a2a contact. But I don't see signal strength on that second contact. So am I flying into a two ship or is the second contact 50 miles away. I don't know. The M2k and F15 do know.

 

I don't know why you think I said I wanted BF to be 104th. Where did I say that? And more importantly, how does that contribute to this conversation?

 

This conversation is over how to improve BF. Right now the M2k and f15 have advantages over the su27. If you need hard proof and you just don't want to read the opinions that others have posted, then go pull up the stat page. What are the most flown fighters on the map with the most a2a kills?

 

The stats won't lie....

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Can we have a voice discussion about what we're trying to convey? I'm open to talking to anyone. Nothing hostile. I'd like to learn what others think outside of the context of the forums. This place can get very heated and I know in the past we've had some great discussions about balance on TS. I'll be on TS for a bit. Poke me or jump in if you want to chat.

Did your discussion get a little heated and crash TS? The BuddySpike TS server is down.

 

TJ

Again, how is DataLink going to resolve the supposed structural, performance, missile, and radar issues people have cited previously in this discussion to start this whole balancing debate in the first place?

We don't know if it will. We just want to test it to see what it does. The Su27 is the only plane in BF to have something it has by default removed that is not a weapon.

 

Often times there's a single Su27 tasked in an area due to the non-coordination of a group or series of groups of people. In what crazy alternative facts logic world does DataLink solve the issues that you people are pointing out?

The SA definitely helps, but I don't see where this has anything to do with anything. Blue has a lot of times where they are by themselves to. I also don't see anywhere in this thread where someone is saying that DL will help.

 

First its missiles are the reason Su27 sucks, then it's the structural integrity during extreme maneuvers is the reason the Su27 sucks, then it's the refueling, then it's the radar that's holding it back...surely it can't be all these things.

Its actually all of those things if you think about it. Yes, the Flanker has the T missile, but it SUCKS. Its really not worth carrying. That leaves us with the R and the 73. The R is pretty bad. Most people will agree with that that have any experience with the Su. That leaves us with the 73. If you take the R and the 73 together and think about what kind of engagement the Flanker would excel in its sneak attack and that is what a lot of people try to do. A sneak attack that forces you inside 5 NM to be even close to effective and even at that range the R is still really bad and 73 is out of range on a maneuvering target.

 

The Su27 was the only plane that can rip its wings off when you are not going a million miles an our. I could be wrong with the Mirage, but I thought you had to be going pretty fast with it to rip them off. This has been pretty much fixed in the normal settings on the Su. If you relax the flight surfaces you can still rip them off. I think people just tend to lump this in as it was an issue for so long.

 

The Flanker takes around 7 minutes just to refuel. That does not include rearming and starting up. Yes the startup is fast, but today I was refueling and when I hit 1000 kilos a Mirage that had spawned in at the same time was taxing out. I have to fuel basically to 10000 kilos to be full. This fueling is slower than even the Eagle.

 

Its radar is OK, but does not give you much SA outside of where the threat is. On both the Eagle and the mirage you know what the threat is when you lock him up or see him on your radar. You also know what the threat is on the RWR. The Flanker has neither of those things. I can tell range and attitude of the threat. That is it. If I get launched on or engaged I have no idea what was fired on me or by what.

 

So, saying the above, DL gives us a better SA because that is one of the things the Flanker is lacking. We have all come to the conclusion, I think, in this thread that the ER and ET would be too much. That is why people are about the DL right now. DL is all about SA! Something that the Eagle and Mirage have loads more of including better radar missiles.

 

Are you guys actually saying that the F15 has none of these similar challenges?

That's not what anyone is saying. Ive even said in this thread that the 15 has some issues too in comparison to the Mirage I just don't know what to do about it.

 

Have you even used the AIM7?

Yes, and it is much better than the 27R. Have you used the 27R?

 

Are you really saying the Su27 needs one of the best SARH missiles as well as one of the best IR missiles to be competitive?

Absolutely not. People were just giving those as options. I think the ER is too much in this case. By the way, the 27T is a really bad missile. Ive fired on targets flanking my front from left to right at 4 NM and the T has fallen short. It is a really really bad missile so to say its the best doesn't get you much. Is it the best medium IR missile in BF? Yes, yes it is. Is it the only medium range IR missile in BF? Yes, yes it is.

 

Are you really saying the Su27 doesn't maneuver as well as or better than the F15/Mirage?

I don't see anywhere where anyone has said that. People have said that its structural integrity is way less, but not that it is less maneuverable. That is why the only way for a Flanker to win right now is to try and get to the merge and that is what a lot of people try and do.

 

Are you really saying the two extra minutes you need to wait for fueling is what's making you lose engagements in the Su27?

Its not 2 extra minutes on the ground. Its more like 5. Feel free to try it yourself. The Su27 takes a long time to fuel fully.

 

Are you really saying it's because you don't have DataLink that you're losing 1v1 engagements?

Datalink helps in the process up to the 1v1. If we have the worst missiles in the game and the worst SA don't you think we are going to try and hide until we get close? We rely so much on EO because most of the time if we get seen its an uphill battle and most of the time its a flee for our lives or we die. Can the Flanker 1v1 effectively? Sure it can, if we get close enough and that is the major problem. We have to get damn close to be effective. I mean really close. EO lets us sneak in and get close. We have to do that because the 27R is a joke, the 27T is worse than the 73 and the 73 is the real only way we get kills and its effective kill range on a maneuvering target mind you is about 2 NM for kills reliably. Yes we can fire before that, but if they move or flare its over. Also, remember the 73 loves flares.

 

Are you really saying that with ten more azimuth degrees of radar range than the F15 and Mirage you're at a disadvantage?

There is a major disadvantage again because of SA. Both the Eagle and Mirage can both see what the threat is and take actions accordingly. The Su27 can't.

 

Are you really saying that having EO radar is not a factor in this debate on the Su27's capabilities?

Yes, EO helps a lot in our abilities to get in close. However, EO is not a win all and has issues. If you are in hot on a Su27 it is very difficult to get you in EO until you are right on top of me. Again, the main reason EO is relied on so heavily is because we don't have a way to stand off at all. DL helps again because it gives SA. We still have crap missiles, but we have a better idea of where threats are so we don't fly in to a 3 ship and die with EO because we can only see 1 target at a time.

 

Is this real life?

Yes, yes it is.

 

The Mirage tracks at 65nm and can lock at 50nm as per the manual and my in-game experience.

 

In my tests with the Su27 some time ago it can track a fighter sized target at 120km (65nm) and lock at 40nm.

 

I honestly wouldn't call that "just so much better", especially with the added detriment to the Mirage's radar being subject to clutter filtering and losing track/lock MUCH more probable. That isn't the case for the Su27's radar.

 

This is the stuff I'm talking about. Conjecture overcoming your testimony. This is definitely not the stuff that current balance issues should be criticized and manipulated by!

 

No one is saying its about distance. Its more about SA. Again DL helps with SA. The Russian radar does not give type or target and the RWR does not provide type of threat. Its even worse when you are painted by a friend because the Russian RWR truly only tracks 1 primary source in the increasing bars and 1 or more secondaries using attitudes. If your wing man is painting you you can't see crap. So, when we go into an engagement we have no idea what the threat is and when we are fired on we have no idea what type of radar missile it is whether thats from a ground base or air.

 

1. Learn to use the Russian RWR. It actually does give information on multiple contacts. It gives more information than the Mirage/F15 RWR like radar strength/distance as well as relative altitude. You don't have distance information on the Western RWR...the symbols in closer/further away from the center are not distances (like 99% of people think). It's the computer using whatever algorithm to tell you what is the biggest threat, but it does not have context in which that threat is presented.

 

Yes, the Russian RWR is great, but again its great for 1 threat. However, even though its great I have no idea what the threat is which is a massive deal. I also have no idea where the second threat is or what it is. I can tell attitude, but not distance. SA is worse, to me, in this case compared to the Mirage and F15. With the Mirage and F15, you can tell when a contact becomes a threat. Thats what the inner ring is for. The algorithms that are run are used to calculate strength of the signal from the source, use the signal type to determine the type of source and determine when that source becomes a threat. Will it give you as detailed information on a single threat for distance? No, it won't, but you'll know when hes a threat and can fire on you and what type of threat he is which gives you information on how to deal with him and the threat he launches.

 

2. Why do you want BF to be like 104th so badly? That's exactly what I would hope people do not want to happen. I play on Blue Flag because I do not enjoy the missions on 104th or Open Conflict. Is that the goal here...to turn Blue Flag into 104th?

 

I don't think anyone wants BF to be 104th and I have not seen anyone say that. People have said, including myself, that 104th allows DL, but that is it.

Edited June 15, 2017 by M0ltar

Did your discussion get a little heated and crash TS? The BuddySpike TS server is down.

 

TJ

 

:megalol: no one came up until the point the server crashed. :cry:

Two things:

 

1. Learn to use the Russian RWR. It actually does give information on multiple contacts. It gives more information than the Mirage/F15 RWR like radar strength/distance as well as relative altitude. You don't have distance information on the Western RWR...the symbols in closer/further away from the center are not distances (like 99% of people think). It's the computer using whatever algorithm to tell you what is the biggest threat, but it does not have context in which that threat is presented.

 

2. Why do you want BF to be like 104th so badly? That's exactly what I would hope people do not want to happen. I play on Blue Flag because I do not enjoy the missions on 104th or Open Conflict. Is that the goal here...to turn Blue Flag into 104th?

 

Still the best argument for the fact that the SU27 is at a supreme disadvantage:

Blue doesnt want it.

 

The a10C was wanted (and added) to RED - it is clearly the air to ground superior platform, so to even it out, Red got it.

 

Why doesnt blue want any of the Russian fighters?

 

Dont give me an east v west argument as this server is very polluted (we both have m2k, we both have huey, hip and gazelle, we both have the a10c.)

 

Mic drop- Im out.

 

TJ

We gonna get some rotor head love anytime soon? Looking for more rotor slots and the Mistral and L in there. I can't wait to shoot some more M2k's down. Captures happen with rotors and boots. I don't own any non-clickable AC or Russian AC. When I went Red to balance the player #'s, I ended up being screwed because the UH-1s were only at FARPS and not at Rwys. I hope it's just a "At the speed of free" situation.

Aborted-

 

You need to learn your f15 and m2k RWR. It does give you distance info, it just doesn't give the distance info you think it gives. The Russian RWR does the same through signal strength. You have to learn what that means on BF because of the lack of long range missiles. I know if it's an f15, he can't fire until there are only two dots unlit. M2k is 3 dots. But how do I know if it's a f15 or a M2k? I DONT.

 

Yes, the Russian RWR will tell me of one other a2a contact. But I don't see signal strength on that second contact. So am I flying into a two ship or is the second contact 50 miles away. I don't know. The M2k and F15 do know.

 

I don't know why you think I said I wanted BF to be 104th. Where did I say that? And more importantly, how does that contribute to this conversation?

 

This conversation is over how to improve BF. Right now the M2k and f15 have advantages over the su27. If you need hard proof and you just don't want to read the opinions that others have posted, then go pull up the stat page. What are the most flown fighters on the map with the most a2a kills?

 

The stats won't lie....

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I don't know that you can see type of plane on the stats page, can you?

Edited June 15, 2017 by M0ltar

I don't know that you can see type of plane on the stats page, can you?

 

We cant- not sure if the admins are keeping the data behind the scenes.

 

My money is F15 is the most played air to air. M2k has the most kills.

 

TJ

Wow..."yes" to every one of those questions. That pretty much sums up the level of conjecture and subjective critique on what is and isn't going on.

 

It's clear we're not going to convince each other of anything. I do implore you to observe what team has won the last couple of map rotations during this test session (it's been red ~3:1, btw).

 

The fact that you think the Su27 is so inferior is completely lost on me and a whole bunch of others. I'm thankful that Ciribob and the other authorities on the server are observant of the actual gameplay situation and I trust their judgment of feedback more than I trust yours.

Wow..."yes" to every one of those questions. That pretty much sums up the level of conjecture and subjective critique on what is and isn't going on.

 

It's clear we're not going to convince each other of anything. I do implore you to observe what team has won the last couple of map rotations during this test session (it's been red ~3:1, btw).

 

The fact that you think the Su27 is so inferior is completely lost on me and a whole bunch of others. I'm thankful that Ciribob and the other authorities on the server are observant of the actual gameplay situation and I trust their judgment of feedback more than I trust yours.

I dont know where you got yes from. I answered your questions and all of them said our SA is terrible and weapons force us in very very close.

 

You can't draw conclusions and say who won the round etc. 1 it's testing. 2 pilot skill is not taken into account. 3 You have to look at player numbers, what aircraft were flown, etc. I could probably make a pretty good guess and say the majority on red have been mirages and not flankers. Also, in at least a. Ouple of those rounds red heavily outnumbered blue.

 

Leave the admins out of it as I'm sure they dont want to get drawn into this especially people putting them in certain corners on both sides on their stance and feelings.

 

I answered your questions objectively and without attack and yet you continue to be disrespectful through this whole conversation or read into things that could not be further from the truth to paint a picture that looks positive in your eyes. Every answer I gave paints a picture that says that the flanker is at a disadvantage. I have no idea what response you read, but my answers were hardly yes.

Wow..."yes" to every one of those questions. That pretty much sums up the level of conjecture and subjective critique on what is and isn't going on.

 

It's clear we're not going to convince each other of anything. I do implore you to observe what team has won the last couple of map rotations during this test session (it's been red ~3:1, btw).

 

The fact that you think the Su27 is so inferior is completely lost on me and a whole bunch of others. I'm thankful that Ciribob and the other authorities on the server are observant of the actual gameplay situation and I trust their judgment of feedback more than I trust yours.

 

Go fly it on BF. Find out for yourself.

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow..."yes" to every one of those questions. That pretty much sums up the level of conjecture and subjective critique on what is and isn't going on.

 

It's clear we're not going to convince each other of anything. I do implore you to observe what team has won the last couple of map rotations during this test session (it's been red ~3:1, btw).

 

The fact that you think the Su27 is so inferior is completely lost on me and a whole bunch of others. I'm thankful that Ciribob and the other authorities on the server are observant of the actual gameplay situation and I trust their judgment of feedback more than I trust yours.

 

 

Also, you clearly aren't trying to understand how poor the SA is in the su27 RWR.

 

I flew this scenario tonight on BF (while your twb friends engaged us in a M2k and f15) and I'd challenge you to try it- fly su27 towards a blue sa3 with two a2a contacts heading towards you. Wait until the sa3 fires. Turn away from the sa3. Tell me where the a2a contacts are.

 

Good luck. And that's the problem with the su27 RWR.

 

I don't have a cool diamond (or box) that shows where you are. I get signal strength (range) of the missile inbound... I'd rather have the SA!

 

And I'd deal with all of this (DL off and crappy RWR) if I knew the missiles were closer to an even playing field. The 530 has a custom FM and is far superior (lose lock, just reacquire). (I'm fine with fc3 weapons as the f15 fights the same issues the su27 fights so I feel that's pretty even.)

 

Does DL fix this problem? Of course it doesn't. The only fix here is to disable the far superior Mirage. But I don't want that! I want something that will help me address the deficiency in the su27.

 

What do you recommend to help solve the deficiency in the su27?

 

TJ

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you lack SA in Blue Flag and don't know where anyone is, then its time to get GCI up. And not in a way that would get you banned from most servers.

I don't know why you guys are still trying to convince me. You're moving back into hyperbole where the Su27 can simply do nothing on the server effectively.

 

It's just not true. If it were as bad as you're saying I wouldn't be concerned about seeing them in the sky.

 

You can live in the defeatist role where you're forced to play other aircraft because you just can't seem to figure out how the other Su27 players are doing it all you want. Call me out for "personal attacks" just because I disagree with you and can provide good enough reasons to argue against all you want too. It won't ever solve your real problem.

ITT: Blue players that have never played Red in BF whom like to come on with an uneven playing field.

That's rich coming from the side that wanted the A-10C, Mirage, Huey and Gazelle while Blue doesn't even care if it has 25T's and MI-8's.