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Mouse pointer and head movement in VR


VR FlightSim

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Hi

Let me first say that I absolutely love DCS. Since version 2.5 and it's brilliant VR support I'm finally enjoying this platform to its full potential. Thank you!

 

There is, however, one very annoying feature that I would like to highlight here.

I'm talking about "mouse pointer being somehow connected to head tracking" (VR and trackIR).

I've searched through tons of threads and different forums last night and found out that there are many many people complaining about this specific issue over and over again.

 

I also understand, there are users whose opinion on this subject is different simply because they got used to it and some perhaps even prefer this way of control.

So before we start another hot argument about which one is better. I would like to state that I am NOT proposing changes to the existing system but simply adding another option for many of us crying out loud for this feature for a very long time.

 

Can you please please dedicate some of your valuable time to look into this?

Simply disconnect the mouse pointer from head movement. It will make many lives much easier.

Other flight sims use this kind of "mouse freedom" in VR and from my personal experience, I totally understand why.

 

At the moment this is the biggest immersion breaker that makes me really pissed off.

 

Kind regards

Jay

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I've only had VR for a short time. I mapped mouse clicks to my hotas and somewhat center my mouse.

 

 

 

I dont have to touch my mouse to hit switches in the cockpit. I just look at the switch I want in the center of my view.

 

 

so mouse tied to head movement/not should be a selectable option.

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I've only had VR for a short time. I mapped mouse clicks to my hotas and somewhat center my mouse.

 

 

 

I dont have to touch my mouse to hit switches in the cockpit. I just look at the switch I want in the center of my view.

 

 

so mouse tied to head movement/not should be a selectable option.

 

Yes, that's what I'm proposing here.

I respect the fact that many people like it as it is but there's also many users who find it very distracting so simple option "pointer following head tracking ON/OFF" would be absolutely great.

 

Is someone from the developers actually reading these posts?

I would like to see what they think about it. It's quite an old issue discussed across many forums though.

 

Jay

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I just realized that the ordinary mouse arrow in menus and over the initial screen actually has the freedom (not tied to VR tracking) so one would assume that the tech is already there thus not much work to allow pointer (crosshair) to behave in the same way.

 

Can somebody from the dev team respond to this please?

Or should I contact them directly somehow...?

I really mean to keep pushing on this issue as it spoils the experience for me big time!

 

Jay


Edited by VR FlightSim
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the more you use the mouse the less of an issue this is.

18 months ago when I got VR I agreed with the op about the mouse.

 

but 18 months later I now use the mouse for nearly everything.

I actually use the cockpit buttons more than my hotas.

and more than I did with trackIR.

 

so im actually finally getting my monies worth out of clickable cockpits.

 

i would like to try the option of moving the mouse only with the mouse or the head. to see what its like, but its not a game changer anymore, for me.

 

i found trying to do it with a touch controller even more alien than using a mouse.

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Yeah, I'd like to be able to decouple head movement from cursor movement. I'm likely to be buying one of the finger tracking kits in the hardware forum, so having to keep my head still whilst pointing at something sounds like an unnecessary challenge.

 

VFRHawk

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I think the issue is that if the mouse pointer was disconnected from your head, you’d lose it in the cockpit.

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I believe this can be done, not sure how this would affect the sim on ED's side?

 

https://forums.oculusvr.com/developer/discussion/2432/seperating-head-and-mouse-movement

 

Quote

"The problem is the camera moves the mouse. E.g. if the mouse pointer is center screen and I turn my head the mouse pointer stays center screen. I want it to stay where it would have been in 3d space.

 

It seams that the Oculus head movement maps to the "Mouse X" and "Mouse Y" inputs in unity, so when I turn my head the mouse inputs have value. Sadly I can't find anyway to change this."

 

"Figured it out.

 

I set the Oculus Cameras to not be "Main" then created another camera that is just "Main" Apparently the mouse input is driven by the Main camera rotation."

 

 

Hi

Let me first say that I absolutely love DCS. Since version 2.5 and it's brilliant VR support I'm finally enjoying this platform to its full potential. Thank you!

 

There is, however, one very annoying feature that I would like to highlight here.

I'm talking about "mouse pointer being somehow connected to head tracking" (VR and trackIR).

I've searched through tons of threads and different forums last night and found out that there are many many people complaining about this specific issue over and over again.

 

I also understand, there are users whose opinion on this subject is different simply because they got used to it and some perhaps even prefer this way of control.

So before we start another hot argument about which one is better. I would like to state that I am NOT proposing changes to the existing system but simply adding another option for many of us crying out loud for this feature for a very long time.

 

Can you please please dedicate some of your valuable time to look into this?

Simply disconnect the mouse pointer from head movement. It will make many lives much easier.

Other flight sims use this kind of "mouse freedom" in VR and from my personal experience, I totally understand why.

 

At the moment this is the biggest immersion breaker that makes me really pissed off.

 

Kind regards

Jay

 

I think the issue is that if the mouse pointer was disconnected from your head, you’d lose it in the cockpit.

 

Where you left it in the 3D space, once you move the mouse.

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I don't know what the context is for that Oculus forums post. Is the poster in a game environment, Oculus store, Windows desktop? And the "create another camera" thing makes no sense to me, but I also don't have an Oculus.

My mouse stays where I put it in 3D space in the Windows VR environment. It's only while inside a DCS aircraft cockpit that my mouse pointer tracks with head movements. DCS menus or Mission Editor, the mouse stays put in space.

Decoupling the mouse from head movements was the first thing I asked about when I went VR (https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=219399) because it should absolutely be an option.

 

I think the issue is that if the mouse pointer was disconnected from your head, you’d lose it in the cockpit.

 

Just do the same thing you do when you lose it in other VR environments or even multimonitor setups. Wiggle it for a second and there it is.:thumbup:


Edited by SonofEil

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I don't know what the context is for that Oculus forums post. Is the poster in a game environment, Oculus store, Windows desktop? And the "create another camera" thing makes no sense to me, but I also don't have an Oculus.

 

That was for ED, it's on the forums.oculusvr.com/developer website, it's a developer using the Rift SDK building and app for the oculus rift and wanted to have Separate Head and Mouse movement in his app.

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Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library

Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link

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I think the issue is that if the mouse pointer was disconnected from your head, you’d lose it in the cockpit.

 

Gentleman, don't worry about "lost" mouse.

It's dead simple. If you leave it for awhile, it will disappear and no matter where you looking next, you touch the mouse again and the pointer will pop up right in front of you.

 

This simple but effective mechanics are used very successfully by other sims.

I'll make a demo video (hopefully tonight).

 

Jay

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Already a thread going for this annoying feature.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=223547

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Yes, I've seen that one too. I'm hoping to get this one to the developers though:pirate:

 

And how are you going to do that?

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Can we PLEASE get some response from ED dev team?

 

Jay

 

I asked you further up how you were going to get this particular thread through to the developers. All threads here are read by the people that matter. There is no reason why this thread would be any more likely to succeed than the other I linked to, or any other come to that.

In fact, I would suggest that it is more effective to have one thread that many more people contribute to, rather than dividing into smaller threads.

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I asked you further up how you were going to get this particular thread through to the developers. All threads here are read by the people that matter. There is no reason why this thread would be any more likely to succeed than the other I linked to, or any other come to that.

In fact, I would suggest that it is more effective to have one thread that many more people contribute to, rather than dividing into smaller threads.

 

Don't take me wrong, I have no intentions underestimating the power of "people that matter" or meaning to take the attention above others, however, the thread you mentioned is six weeks old and there's no single reply from ED.

 

Also, the thread seems more like an argument to me, about "which is better" and I didn't wanna go into all that.

This one should have been different. Something like "here is an amazing solution that works great. Would you like it?"

 

Jay

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In general, ED don't reply here, but that doesn't mean they are not reading.

This isn't a bug, it's a 'nice to do' feature and hence it would be way down the priority list for ED I would guess, even if they did like the idea.

As you know, I would like it done as well, but I don't hold out much hope.

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Doesn't the UI_Layer setting "Use Mouse" check box already address this.

I exclusively use the HMD to manipulate the mouse pointer. I've tried it both ways and if you don't like the HMD method check the box.

 

That does not solve the problem. Whilst you can use the mouse in the limited space of your FOV, the pointer is being hijacked by HMD's movement. You need to keep your head very still to aim good.

Not natural at all and really frustrating.

 

Jay

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In general, ED don't reply here, but that doesn't mean they are not reading.

This isn't a bug, it's a 'nice to do' feature and hence it would be way down the priority list for ED I would guess, even if they did like the idea.

As you know, I would like it done as well, but I don't hold out much hope.

 

I've read some older change logs and I think the "free mouse" was already implemented once (at least internally).

We can also see that the tech is already there (menu mouse behaviour) so I would think this could be an easy one.

 

There is a lot of complains about this feature scattered across many forums so I wanted to group these voices here to express an interest in such improvement and perhaps we will get it...


Edited by VR FlightSim
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Thread was also started here - https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=215875

 

ED did something to help but it wasn't enough. What I want to see is the cursor completely unlocked from head movement and possibly an input function for re-centering cursor. For an example, I want to be able to look at the cockpit flood light dial, select it, and be able to look around and still be able to use scroll to adjust the brightness.

 

The mechanics behind this cursor extend back to Ka-50 and I think was designed for TrackIR users. I don't know why it was coded to be tied to head movement in the first place, it was extra work on top of writing the whole input functionality framework. Basically the whole extra chunk of code should be scrapped.

 

Also anyone commenting saying we would lose the cursor in the cockpit, no that isn't even a thing currently. The cursor is confined to a virtual 16:9 box slightly larger than the UI window which is adjusted via re-centering view and therefore we can't simply lose the cursor somewhere behind us.

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