P-47 Zoom climb

Just wonder if anyone can reproduce P-47's superior zoom climb over spit9. I remember reading it in ace pilot Bob Johnson's book in which he claimed that he was able to repeatedly out-zoom a spit9 in a mock dogfight. But in sustain climb, spit9 was better.

Just wonder if anyone can reproduce P-47's superior zoom climb over spit9. I remember reading it in ace pilot Bob Johnson's book in which he claimed that he was able to repeatedly out-zoom a spit9 in a mock dogfight. But in sustain climb, spit9 was better.

Which version of Spit IX and P-47.

What throttle and propeller, boost, settings are you using? Remember the prop pitch, combined with boost at certain altitudes is going to dictate how much bite that giant Curtis paddle is going to take out of the air.

56"/2700 P-47 at sea level shows almost the same boom-zoom swing as 3000/+18 Mk IX, so at high altitude P-47 can be superior.

Excellent :thumbup:

56"/2700 P-47 at sea level shows almost the same boom-zoom swing as 3000/+18 Mk IX, so at high altitude P-47 can be superior.

Not mention if this P-47 was 70" boosted one ;)

Not mention if this P-47 was 70" boosted one ;)

It would have been and it would have been one of the lighter D-5 razor back versions, but probably would have been before they'd implemented the paddle bladed propellers.

I'll also note that Johnson was know for having a surprising amount of upper body strength (P-47 roll rate at speed becomes force limited rather than stops limited) and he said he was using the rudder heavily on the rolling scissors part of the play.

56"/2700 P-47 at sea level shows almost the same boom-zoom swing as 3000/+18 Mk IX, so at high altitude P-47 can be superior.

Yo-Yo, can you do a write up about AFM of P47 like you've done to other assets before?

What aspects do you want to see in this review?

Yo-Yo thanks for taking the time. I for one would love to see stuff like you did for the dora, https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114094 and the other warbirds, the real intricacies of developing these systems and how they relate to the real world data and real world pilot testing. Aka revisting the Dora.

I know you must be busy but thanks for the time. The fighter collection is lucky to have owned and operated a jug and be great to have some of that experience to talk about the jugs quirks and intricacies. For example Nick Grey Interview with Grim Reapers he had some real cool real world information about the jug and stuff like that is really cool to bring into the mix.

Some also say jug is too fast and turns to good and blah blah, maybe address some of that with data .

:thumbup:

Yo-Yo thanks for taking the time. I for one would love to see stuff like you did for the dora, https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114094 and the other warbirds, the real intricacies of developing these systems and how they relate to the real world data and real world pilot testing. Aka revisting the Dora.

I know you must be busy but thanks for the time. The fighter collection is lucky to have owned and operated a jug and be great to have some of that experience to talk about the jugs quirks and intricacies. For example Nick Grey Interview with Grim Reapers he had some real cool real world information about the jug and stuff like that is really cool to bring into the mix.

 

 

Some also say jug is too fast and turns to good and blah blah, maybe address some of that with data .

:thumbup:

I upvote this :thumbup:

Yo-Yo thanks for taking the time. I for one would love to see stuff like you did for the dora, https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114094 and the other warbirds, the real intricacies of developing these systems and how they relate to the real world data and real world pilot testing. Aka revisting the Dora.

I know you must be busy but thanks for the time. The fighter collection is lucky to have owned and operated a jug and be great to have some of that experience to talk about the jugs quirks and intricacies. For example Nick Grey Interview with Grim Reapers he had some real cool real world information about the jug and stuff like that is really cool to bring into the mix.

 

 

Some also say jug is too fast and turns to good and blah blah, maybe address some of that with data .

:thumbup:

Well said. Exactly this I find fascinating.

It would have been and it would have been one of the lighter D-5 razor back versions, but probably would have been before they'd implemented the paddle bladed propellers.

 

I'll also note that Johnson was know for having a surprising amount of upper body strength (P-47 roll rate at speed becomes force limited rather than stops limited) and he said he was using the rudder heavily on the rolling scissors part of the play.

Johnson's second P-47 ('Lucky') was reputed to have been greatly souped up; it was acknowledged to be easily the fastest razorback in the 56th until another pilot borrowed it & put it into the 'drink'. You may not be able to duplicate what he recorded doing with that aircraft in his book, even with a much more powerful version we get in DCS World.

As regards upper body strength, in that generation, most men did a lot of very physical work from an early age and then did a lot of sports on top of that. One of my father's older brothers was the state of Ohio's high school (ages 14-18 yrs) heavyweight wrestling champion his final year during the late 1930s, the man was no more than 170 cm (5'7") tall and he weighed 100kg/220 lbs when he was in his early fifties--and he wasn't fat at all (and he lived to celebrate his 90th birthday). He was relatively typical of the best of his generation.

Johnson was a wrestler too, you may recall. You need a lot of upper body strength to excel in that sport, even in the lower weight classes.

Most countries' air forces selected the cream of their youth for their pilots, and if you check, the vast majority of the aces were outstanding athletes before they started flying.

cheers

horseback

Yes, I understand. I think, after we are get closer to release state, something will be written about the turbocharger that was a new interesting challenge for us.

Excellent and thank you, the Jug is already a masterpiece in my eyes, and as it comes to completion it will only get better:thumbup:

Yo-Yo thanks for taking the time. I for one would love to see stuff like you did for the dora, https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114094 and the other warbirds, the real intricacies of developing these systems and how they relate to the real world data and real world pilot testing. Aka revisting the Dora.

I know you must be busy but thanks for the time. The fighter collection is lucky to have owned and operated a jug and be great to have some of that experience to talk about the jugs quirks and intricacies. For example Nick Grey Interview with Grim Reapers he had some real cool real world information about the jug and stuff like that is really cool to bring into the mix.

 

 

Some also say jug is too fast and turns to good and blah blah, maybe address some of that with data .

:thumbup:

Could I humbly request an explanation on when the supercharger kicks into second stage and what dictates that (or a known link would work!!?).

Another humble request as I also cannot find an online reference (one I can understand) on what sensors (vacuum?) is the P-47 using and from what device/location to drive the waste gates so that the turbo spools up depending on altitude and other engine parameters?

I did listen to Greg's excellent tutorials but having trouble putting it all in one easy to reference place. I will also settle for links and admonishments for not searching harder! :lol::lol:

Waste gate automatics maintains not MP but the pressure at turbo nozzles (backpressure), so it is an absolute pressure aneroid (vacuum).

 

If you mean Merlin supercharger, yes, it's vacuum aneroid switch with hysteresis. No ram.

Do you know the reason why designers went with back pressure reference not MP ?

I feel that wast gate regulator would make things easier when maintaining MP.

Waste gate automatics maintains not MP but the pressure at turbo nozzles (backpressure), so it is an absolute pressure aneroid (vacuum).

 

If you mean Merlin supercharger, yes, it's vacuum aneroid switch with hysteresis. No ram.

Eureka! Thank you Yo-Yo!

I hadn't come across anything like this, and now I have a good reference and explanation to add to my understanding.

Very much appreciated.

Putting all my hopes on the up and coming water injection to give me the speed I am needing. I have individually placed sliders for the throttle, propeller control and booster levers so I can control as best I can my MP, RPM, heat and speed as per specs. Still I find the FW and 109s all over me and around me. I need more speed even if it is for 10 minutes MAX! Diving gives me some speed but I find I was too far away even with good height advantage to get there in time. A spark in the accelerator when I hit the gas sound like just what I need. " when I say go ..I MEAN GO!!

well like i told some folks in SOW server on a contact, the Jug is coming its a steaming bull takes some time to get up to speed but when it does watch out.

well like i told some folks in SOW server on a contact, the Jug is coming its a steaming bull takes some time to get up to speed but when it does watch out.

Fully mapped on my Thrustmaster HOTAS now. Becoming second nature with trim, and engine management to offset for torque/power etc. Becoming second nature with no keyboard interaction to squeeze out a bit more power here and there. Cruising along, hands off at 380 knots, maybe some minor rudder input has become a relaxing scenic drive faster than my A-10C will hold.

When we get our WEP function, and the Cylinder Head Temps along with some other visual things get finished . . . you can bet I will show up to test her out.

56"/2700 P-47 at sea level shows almost the same boom-zoom swing as 3000/+18 Mk IX, so at high altitude P-47 can be superior.

Could you tell us your method for your boom-zoom swing benchmark.

Thanks.

Well the problem is a small advantage in this area is hard to make use of. Even if you come out 200m above and 50 Km/h faster than your opponent at the top of a zoom, he can still be shooting the whole way up. Not to mention any sort of rolling or jinking on the way up and the margin decreases even more. Really you need significant separation to start with as well.

Well the problem is a small advantage in this area is hard to make use of. Even if you come out 200m above and 50 Km/h faster than your opponent at the top of a zoom, he can still be shooting the whole way up. Not to mention any sort of rolling or jinking on the way up and the margin decreases even more. Really you need significant separation to start with as well.

Oh yeah if someone thinks that with 200-300 m separation can do something, mistake.

And spitfire's low speed stall will take big advantage at high alt, where most of the planes can do very little.