need help ! Air Refuelling how to keep contact ? speed

Is it normal for the basket to disconnect when you fly too far forward while refueling? Seems wrong phisically, I'd think the air-pressure (from forward motion) would keep it firmly on the probe.

If using the KC-135BDA yes as it's sorta broken, as the KC-130, for it to disconnect while flying forward for me, it only disconnect if i get way too close from the ose housing as if i could simply walk out my cockpit and step on and walk on the tanker's wings. But i sualy try to keep a distance from it i don't like amyways being too close.

I noticed it on the S3 tanker. Standard Instant mission in Persian Gulf map.

Didn't read all the replies, but I can tell you that being steady on your stick is also important. I set up a curve of around 22 on my X and Y for my t16000m. I've almost never disconnected on TTI going from ~3k to 14k.

Takes practice!

Try doing Case I Carrier Recovery, you will understand how landing on a carrier is A LOT harder than doing AAR. Of course, Case I Recovery meaning you have to do the carrier landing properly in the real military way and not just landing.

Also as you become more and more understanding of how AAR works, you will begin to understand that AAR after you connect with tanker is ONLY formation flying. It is extremely simple thing, which is keep formation. Of course, in the beginning, it is VERY HARD, but after you practice it becomes a very simple thing which you can do properly everytime. But carrier landing doing properly? That takes months and personally I can't still do it consistently like the real pilots. You will understand when you try carrier landing properly and not just landing it on carrier.

Check internet for "Case I Recovery" and you will understand why it is 10000x harder for carrier landing than AAR!

The info in this thread is really helpful but still not getting the AAR. I have about 20 hours of practice in this, one hell of a stiff neck and sore arm from the tension and have only made contact about 6 times and managed to take fuel 4 times.

I think I may have screwed myself a little, before I went for the refuel I worked on the formation part and flew with the tanker for hours in formation trying to get my sighting in, but I flew to close and to high so now I am always over the basket, and wonderful PIO follows shortly to try get back down.

Do you guys trim out on the AAR? I know the Hornet is self trimming but when trying to get fuel, I feel it is not trimmed well. I will walk the throttle and push to move forward and just 1 knot and the plane will climb instantly, drop it back a little and down the nose goes. I tried flying it on the trim hat, but it does not seem to trim fast enough to fly it like that.

I was having trouble keeping connected too and a friend told me to make a mission with the tanker in an orbit flying at it stock slow speed. After a few hours of that it started to become clear on what I was doing wrong. Throttle should only move about an inch and you have to keep adjusting it. Also adjusting for the bank with small inputs. Don’t try and keep level with the tankers wings I think that’s what I was doing wrong, once I figured out even if I’m wings lever with it I still needed to adjust I didn’t over cominsate as much. Keep trying because you can only get better. Also, do some carrier traps and learn to stay on AOA and the way the throttle responds will help too. GL

The info in this thread is really helpful but still not getting the AAR. I have about 20 hours of practice in this, one hell of a stiff neck and sore arm from the tension and have only made contact about 6 times and managed to take fuel 4 times.

 

I think I may have screwed myself a little, before I went for the refuel I worked on the formation part and flew with the tanker for hours in formation trying to get my sighting in, but I flew to close and to high so now I am always over the basket, and wonderful PIO follows shortly to try get back down.

 

Do you guys trim out on the AAR? I know the Hornet is self trimming but when trying to get fuel, I feel it is not trimmed well. I will walk the throttle and push to move forward and just 1 knot and the plane will climb instantly, drop it back a little and down the nose goes. I tried flying it on the trim hat, but it does not seem to trim fast enough to fly it like that.

My advices:

1. Always trim the Hornet.

When trimmed properly the CAS will keep the aircraft at 1g.

2. While refueling stick is only fir up and down and rudder only for left and right.

First correct only on one plain of motion and nit both.

3. Throttle- mini small corrections as needed.

4. Refueling pod mental picture on the HUD.

Just remember where it should be, put it there and keep it there.

Fly formation with it and it alone.

5. Put the basket and the tanker at your peripheral sight and keep them there, especially the basket.

Don’t chase it.

It doesn’t matter.

The refuelling pod id your whole world.

6. When push comes to shove and if you’re flying offline...just shoot the damn tanker.

We all did that in the beginning ;)

learn how to use ATC mode.

and in normal way to refueling all you need to do is keep move your throttle forward and back~then your practice.

Good luck:thumbup:

The info in this thread is really helpful but still not getting the AAR. I have about 20 hours of practice in this, one hell of a stiff neck and sore arm from the tension and have only made contact about 6 times and managed to take fuel 4 times.

 

I think I may have screwed myself a little, before I went for the refuel I worked on the formation part and flew with the tanker for hours in formation trying to get my sighting in, but I flew to close and to high so now I am always over the basket, and wonderful PIO follows shortly to try get back down.

 

Do you guys trim out on the AAR? I know the Hornet is self trimming but when trying to get fuel, I feel it is not trimmed well. I will walk the throttle and push to move forward and just 1 knot and the plane will climb instantly, drop it back a little and down the nose goes. I tried flying it on the trim hat, but it does not seem to trim fast enough to fly it like that.

Wiggle your toes when you get tense. Also envision the stick as something you dont wanna touch but you have to... a used woman's product, your best friends junk, whatever floats your boat. It's called fingertip for a reason ;)

After practice, I can contact in almost every try. But I can not keep the contact even single time.

 

specially speed.

 

Do I miss any step ?

 

I did pass thru this several times, but now refueling is not quite difficult anymore, My Advise:

 

1- First of all, discover the tanker flight speed, this is important to keep contact.

2- Do not Chase the basket, repeat, Do not try to chase the basket. If you got disconnected, reduce power and begin all approach again.

3- once connected and receiving fuel, stay calm, and play with the stick gently, and work with your throttle to stay in the "range" of the tanker speed.

 

Sometimes I thought it was impossible and do not understand how to solve, I began to get the hose connected when I realized where in the HUD I shall aim the basket.

Try to relax grip. "Stiff" arm doesn't make fine movements. Try it with two fingers.

Yeah have had to put a concerted effort into trying to relax. I have a twist rudder and I find myself twisted to the left in a big way. I actually think I have damaged my stick as the left rudder is way looser then right twist now. :joystick:

I'm using T-50 with 10cm extension and WH grip, MFG Crosswind pedals and WH throttle and finally i'm having successful aerial refuels in this game. It just takes practice, 100% concentration and you have to adjust your throttle a lot. For some reason i find it easier to refuel with KC-130 than S-3 Viking.

.... For some reason i find it easier to refuel with KC-130 than S-3 Viking.

same here... the KC-130 is a little bit easier for me.

same here... the KC-130 is a little bit easier for me.

I agree. I still cannot refuel with the KC-135BDA at all. S-3 is easier.

I find the KC-130 easiest. With the longer hoses I have more room for error staying connected. I use ATTH autopilot during the process to dampen my stick inputs. After reading this thread, I now walk the throttle back and forth and that helps alot too.

5. Put the basket and the tanker at your peripheral sight and keep them there, especially the basket.

 

The refuelling pod id your whole world.

This is good advice and made a big difference last night.

Did not get the tanker to extend the basket but flew a tank just watching the pod.

It becomes a kind of pivot point. When I watch the tanker, the movements between my jet and it seem way bigger so I correct more. With the pod, I am just kinda pivoting around it.

Not sure if it helps or not, but I battle with the trim, so last night I matched the taker speed on ATC and then used BARO to hold altitude. Gave the jet a little time and when I came out of both of those it seemed more stable. I was thinking maybe the jet sets the trim when trying to hold BARO.

Hopefully tonight I can hit the basket.

This is good advice and made a big difference last night.

 

 

 

Did not get the tanker to extend the basket but flew a tank just watching the pod.

 

It becomes a kind of pivot point. When I watch the tanker, the movements between my jet and it seem way bigger so I correct more. With the pod, I am just kinda pivoting around it.

 

 

 

Not sure if it helps or not, but I battle with the trim, so last night I matched the taker speed on ATC and then used BARO to hold altitude. Gave the jet a little time and when I came out of both of those it seemed more stable. I was thinking maybe the jet sets the trim when trying to hold BARO.

 

 

 

Hopefully tonight I can hit the basket.

Well Done !!!

As for using AP while flying formation off someone or while refueling...in my personal opinion it shall be a bad habit and will not help you in the long run.

Learn to play the throttle by mm forward and backwards...it will teach you the world about managing your speeds to a point that you shall be able to tango on a dime.

As for trimming...when you don’t trim correctly you correct with the stick which has a wider range and it causes oscillations up and down.

Trim with a very light touch and check by leaving the stick if the aircraft is straight and level.

Practice by just flying alone.

Keep up the good work !

Well Done !!!

As for using AP while flying formation off someone or while refueling...in my personal opinion it shall be a bad habit and will not help you in the long run.

Learn to play the throttle by mm forward and backwards...it will teach you the world about managing your speeds to a point that you shall be able to tango on a dime.

As for trimming...when you don’t trim correctly you correct with the stick which has a wider range and it causes oscillations up and down.

Trim with a very light touch and check by leaving the stick if the aircraft is straight and level.

Practice by just flying alone.

Keep up the good work !

Thanks....

Not using the auto modes to do the refueling, just kind seems to make the jet feel more stable, fly in it for about 10 seconds, then I disengage both modes and start walking the throttle.

Last night I was able to connect while the tanker was in the middle of a turn just by watching the tanker wing and lining up the 10 degree pitch marker with the pod on the wing so that it's diagnal. I didn't stay connected more than 20 seconds but at least I was able to connect.

I tried to use trim instead of making tiny movements with my stick. The trim barely moves while flaps are auto. It has to be held down and I don't like that effect. My warthog gimbal is a bit sticky so making fine adjustments with the stick was hard enough but I noticed things would get worse if I wasn't relaxed and always thinking I need to get in there!

I should play with the warthog throttle saturation or settings because moving it millimeters doesn't change my speed up or down..I need like half an inch for it to change speed but the speed it changes to at that point is a bit much.

I recommend using sedlo's mini campaign mission 3 to tank as it's an AAR practice mission before engaging some bogeys and the tanker keeps a shallow turn while orbiting around so it will force you to look at it's wing and align your HUD rather than staying straight and level and then you end up focusing on the basket.

I agree. I still cannot refuel with the KC-135BDA at all. S-3 is easier.

 

I find the KC-130 easiest. With the longer hoses I have more room for error staying connected. I use ATTH autopilot during the process to dampen my stick inputs. After reading this thread, I now walk the throttle back and forth and that helps alot too.

KC-135 BDA is bugged, see here.

Does anyone out there have success with AAR with a Warthog and NO extension?

I'm new to DCS, but in a former life, was a real world military flying instructor - I used to fly close formation aerobatics in the Pilatus PC9 (and never hit anyone...) - but I feel like a total numpty trying to successfully AAR in the FA18. I haven't re-greased or sandpapered the gimbal ball of the Warthog - there is a small amount of stiction, but it's not that bad, really. I've used Chuck's manual and set the deadzone to 4 and the curves to 16 in X and Y axis, as per his recommendations. But I'm all over the shop like a mad woman's $hit... Any advice would be great - should I start with getting an extension? Haven't flown real world form for a while, maybe I've just lost the edge... ;)

Does anyone out there have success with AAR with a Warthog and NO extension?

I'm new to DCS, but in a former life, was a real world military flying instructor - I used to fly close formation aerobatics in the Pilatus PC9 (and never hit anyone...) - but I feel like a total numpty trying to successfully AAR in the FA18. I haven't re-greased or sandpapered the gimbal ball of the Warthog - there is a small amount of stiction, but it's not that bad, really. I've used Chuck's manual and set the deadzone to 4 and the curves to 16 in X and Y axis, as per his recommendations. But I'm all over the shop like a mad woman's $hit... Any advice would be great - should I start with getting an extension? Haven't flown real world form for a while, maybe I've just lost the edge... ;)

I would advise to use linear curves. If you must make a modification (I don't recommend), try lowering saturation: this will make the required inputs larger. Make the dead zone as small as possible. For the Warthog nothing over 6 should be required: I'm at 4 in X-roll, 0 in Y-pitch. (Hmm 2 in pitch, else I had problems with the Hornet's Alt-Hold)

If you have the Mirage, Su-33, or Harrier give refueling a try with those. I'm very comfortable doing DCS AAR (except for the A-10C), but the Hornet presents a different challenge: it's very sensitive to power-induced pitch change, so moving forward or back will make you pitch up and down respectively.

With a basket, steady yourself at even speed behind the basket and when fairly stable with the tanker, drive forward through the basket. Don't land on it, pierce it.

I haven't tried this yet but I will next try to line up below the basket, probably twice the radius of the basket.

Good luck.

Poke me on TeamSpeak (Aerobatics Online), most weekday evenings UTC-4 (US-DST) and I can try to help. Good luck.

Does anyone out there have success with AAR with a Warthog and NO extension?

I'm new to DCS, but in a former life, was a real world military flying instructor - I used to fly close formation aerobatics in the Pilatus PC9 (and never hit anyone...) - but I feel like a total numpty trying to successfully AAR in the FA18. I haven't re-greased or sandpapered the gimbal ball of the Warthog - there is a small amount of stiction, but it's not that bad, really. I've used Chuck's manual and set the deadzone to 4 and the curves to 16 in X and Y axis, as per his recommendations. But I'm all over the shop like a mad woman's $hit... Any advice would be great - should I start with getting an extension? Haven't flown real world form for a while, maybe I've just lost the edge... ;)

Your habits are the right ones, just not the right ones for simulated flight with a short stick that has only a weak spring for a feedback and no ass to feel.

You just need the time to acquire new habits, bad ones as real flight goes, that rely more on eye sight and muscle memory.

An extension might make it a bit easier, but since you're coming from real aviation don't use curves which will give you new bad habits which shall ruin everything you remember.

Patience :)

Appreciate the words of advice - will keep on trying'!!