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Old 03-13-2018, 01:27 AM   #11
streakeagle
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Brummer's prices are at the high end of the spectrum, but it would be worth it if the quality is as high as the price... TM with force feedback! The feel and accuracy of the stick would have to beat the VKB MCG Pro to get my money, but I can see the combined stick/rudder pedals package in my system. But my wife might kill me if she caught me spending that much money. Then again, she once offered to allow me to buy an F-4 ejection seat training cockpit from eBay and I had to turn it down because I had no where to put it.
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:30 AM   #12
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Once again, the Brunner CLS-E joystick won't work because it doesn't use the DirectInput force feedback API. Please stop suggesting it, someone's bound to buy it without doing enough research and be sorely disappointed when they find out that it doesn't work with DCS.
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:26 AM   #13
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So you say is impossible to build an API for DCS to work with it?
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Old 03-13-2018, 07:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zaelu View Post
So you say is impossible to build an API for DCS to work with it?

Actually I sent them an enquiry last summer regarding their CLS-E cyclic.

Here is their answer:

"unfortunalely we do not have experice with ED DCS yet.
we directly support X-plane, prepar3D and MS FSX with our CLS2SIM Sw enviroment. https://www.brunner-innovation.swiss...2sim-software/"

I don`t find this very appealing. Even if they decide to support DCS, you still cannot use your high end stick with other sims like CloD, BoB, Condor or whatever comes up. The CLS-E cost 8000EUR by the way
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Old 03-13-2018, 08:38 AM   #15
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It's not impossible, but it's difficult. DCS does not export FFB data, so a virtual joystick device has to be created that can receive and process the data. Also, the FFB API uses 'shapes' such as Damper, Friction, Sine, Spring, etc, and the joystick hardware is supposed to handle the implementation of these shapes. This saves the devs the trouble of having to create commands with the correct tweens so that they can say "do a sine movement for 500ms with a force of 2.0" instead of actually having to draw out the sine wave and constantly send it over to the joystick.

The CLS-E joystick has an API available to control it via software, but it only seems to support two types of forces: an 'active' force that applies a force in a direction with a certain magnitude, and a 'passive' force that attempts to keep the joystick in a certain position, resisting any movement away from that position with a certain magnitude. In order for it to work with DCS, software needs to be written that will adapt the force feedback API's shapes to the two types of forces that the CLS-E supports.

The best party to write that software would be Brunner, but it's a bit of a chicken and egg issue. There's not much point for them to spend the time to write the software for DCS if nobody's going to buy their base, but until they write the software, nobody's going to buy their base. In the past I considered picking up the base and writing the software myself, but given that there's not a single review of it anywhere, I didn't want to be the guinea pig.

Last edited by Ranma13; 03-13-2018 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 03-13-2018, 02:23 PM   #16
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Are there actual Brunner sticks in the wild? So far all I've seen are the renders
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Old 03-13-2018, 03:05 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranma13 View Post

The best party to write that software would be Brunner, but it's a bit of a chicken and egg issue. There's not much point for them to spend the time to write the software for DCS if nobody's going to buy their base, but until they write the software, nobody's going to buy their base. In the past I considered picking up the base and writing the software myself, but given that there's not a single review of it anywhere, I didn't want to be the guinea pig.
Wouldn't ED be better choice for that actually knowing the DCS? As Brunner should provide a API/ABI to ED for their controller so then ED can write the plugin?

The problem would be fixed by Brunner to send the test unit to ED, that then does main work and then both Brunner and ED market it for DCS compatible...

That way customers doesn't need to be the guinea pigs nor wait that something gets done.
Hardware manufacturer provides the hardware.
Software manufacturer provides the software.
Customers use results from both...
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Old 03-13-2018, 04:48 PM   #18
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No, it doesn't make sense to do it that way. DCS implements the common standard (DirectInput FFB API), whereas Brunner uses custom software. What you're proposing is like saying that hardware manufacturers should send their devices to Microsoft so that Microsoft can write a custom driver for it. It doesn't work like that. Microsoft creates a common standard (for example the HID interface), and if you have a custom device that doesn't use that standard, it's up to you to write the driver for it.
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:11 PM   #19
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Boo to custom drivers

Yeh to standardize controllers
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