A proposal for the usage role and business model of the CE2 - Page 3 - ED Forums
 


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Old 12-10-2017, 11:35 AM   #21
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Ive also stated in posts that for the civi stuff to work they would want to fly from say london to new york, Not Tbilisi to Mozdock, DCS would have to make an open world and not just maps.
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:44 AM   #22
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Actually, a open world has not plausible meanwhile the engine has not evolve on capabilities (better and easy map making).
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:49 AM   #23
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This still sounds like something that can be done equally well in any other dual control airplane that we have in DCS. Do we really need a specialized machine just for that? Besides, if you want to introduce someone to DCS, why not put him in an ARMED airplane and let him blow some stuff up, instead of just watching how you fly barrel rolls and immelmans in a twitchy machine that he has little chance of even taking off or landing by himself.



I wouldn't hold my hopes very high, ED was unable to even solve the issue of needing assets pack to fly a MP mission where those assets are used.

The thing is that even in civilian flight simulators like Xplane or FSX/P3D, those aerobatic hotrods are a terrible niche, as they are only useful for flying stunts over local airfield. I don't think in DCS it will be any different.
My point still stands. Any armed aircraft requires you to map controls and the start is a hassle. You also need to know how weapon systems work, at least partly. My premise is that here lies an opportunity to get players in, who come here primarily for the awesome flight models, and who have spent their time flying civilian-sims. In said cases I believe the easiest step to take is to come try how DCS handles under a familiar aircraft. If you only fly civ-sims a military aircraft with weapons is not going to feel familiar to you.

You may disagree of course.

It may be difficult to fly, but at the same time it is also responsive and something I personally would think people find fun just to try. And who ever said the front-seater can't take-off or land? The aircraft has fixed landing gear. That is the simplicity of it - you don't need anything other than the 4 axes on it to try it.

Regarding the WW2 asset pack, that discussion is not relevant here. It is not about ED not being able to do it, it is about them not wanting to.


Again, I am trying to find some use and a function for this bird without outright dismissing it completely - because it is going to be a part of DCS regardless of how much you, or me, or anyone else would want it out.


Just for the record, I am an optimist - most of the time. I don't see any harm in trying. DCS is not going to change to a civil-airliner-sim because someone had the audacity to bring an aerobatics aircraft in here.
The argument of the game changing it's format because non-armed aircraft are added is in my opinion ridiculous, but we can have a separate discussion on that. Aircraft fly the same regardless of what they carry under the wing...


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Old 12-10-2017, 11:55 AM   #24
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But ok lets say your right? Why would they not look at the L-39? Its not exactly complicated, Or even the C-101 and hawk once rear seat is back, L-39 has two models without weapons with weapons best of both worlds so to say?

Multi crew would make the eagle a better sale, But still apart from dicking about in DCS its redundant.

Often on steam forums the question popss up im new to DCS what should i buy, There second is i dont want it to be complicated, There either A pointed to FC3 or B the M-2000 every time.
Two reasons:

1 - Because the CE2 is coming. I'm just trying to find a place for it instead of going about and spreading flames.
2 - Even if they are not complex, they are still more complex than the CE2.

And some people just want to go about and fly around. Jets feel quite different than prop-planes. My point somewhat hinges on the idea of a civ-simmer coming to DCS. I admit that. It is not the strongest starting points, but such people do exist.


As a side not - FC3 aircraft are all good and well, but wouldn't you want to showcase DCS with something that is fully modeled?
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Old 12-10-2017, 11:59 AM   #25
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Ive also stated in posts that for the civi stuff to work they would want to fly from say london to new york, Not Tbilisi to Mozdock, DCS would have to make an open world and not just maps.
This is very true. Then again, we are talking about an aerobatics aircraft here - not bringing a 747 into DCS.


I'm not saying DCS should be riddled with all dem civil aircraft... I'm saying that I'm trying not to dismiss one when one is introduced. In my country, Military aircraft exist in the same airspace and aerodromes as civilian ones.
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Old 12-10-2017, 12:06 PM   #26
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Alot of aerobatic teams use mods most of the time anyway which are stated private. Noone likes flames, It may even be better if 2.5 was released first then the eagle, Because Caucasus is not exactly pretty in 1.5.8, Having the new graphics engine then the eagle would help because dcs would look prettier on its new terrain map? 2.5 engine would attract new customers even more i guess.

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This is very true. Then again, we are talking about an aerobatics aircraft here - not bringing a 747 into DCS.


I'm not saying DCS should be riddled with all dem civil aircraft... I'm saying that I'm trying not to dismiss one when one is introduced. In my country, Military aircraft exist in the same airspace and aerodromes as civilian ones.
There new terrain engine would be awsome in open world and could open up many possibilities for developers to be attracted to eagle dynamics to

Combat tho is what the 3rd parties and ED do best.
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Old 12-10-2017, 12:19 PM   #27
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Having the new graphics engine then the eagle would help because dcs would look prettier on its new terrain map? 2.5 engine would attract new customers even more i guess.


There new terrain engine would be awsome in open world and could open up many possibilities for developers to be attracted to eagle dynamics to

Combat tho is what the 3rd parties and ED do best.
A new terrain engine require years of development, and actually EDGE has only 2 years live and has very "green" to a open terrain, that is only applicable if EDGE evolve to them. Need wait to 3rd parties get the SDK and start to build maps.

And change to other engine has imposible, require a quantity of work similarly to the SC project, literally change the 75-90% of the engine to math with the actual capabilities of EDGE and DCS World project.
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Old 12-10-2017, 01:22 PM   #28
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My point still stands. Any armed aircraft requires you to map controls and the start is a hassle. You also need to know how weapon systems work, at least partly. My premise is that here lies an opportunity to get players in, who come here primarily for the awesome flight models, and who have spent their time flying civilian-sims. In said cases I believe the easiest step to take is to come try how DCS handles under a familiar aircraft. If you only fly civ-sims a military aircraft with weapons is not going to feel familiar to you.
My point stands too. If you can't/don't want to use weapons you don't have to, just fly any of the aircraft in DCS without them. But the capability is there in case you want to use them. You don't need a special unarmed plane just for this purpose.

CE2 is not a familiar aircraft to anyone, especially coming from civ-sims that are dominated by Cessnas, Pipers, Boeings and other buses. Being a stunt aerobatic plane, its flight model will be totally different from what most real pilots have ever experienced. And significantly different from anything else in DCS. Besides, M3 doesn't really have a stellar reputation when it comes to FM development.

Anyway how many people are out there who want to experience "awesome DCS flight models" and can't be arsed to at least learn a bit about the aircraft and the systems to map the basic controls?

I understand that we're trying hard to find out what to do with this airplane when it inevitably lands in DCS, but this only shows how out of place it is in the current DCS environment. Ultimately, sales will tell if developing this addon was a good decision for M3.
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Old 12-10-2017, 01:29 PM   #29
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My point still stands. Any armed aircraft requires you to map controls and the start is a hassle. You also need to know how weapon systems work, at least partly. My premise is that here lies an opportunity to get players in, who come here primarily for the awesome flight models, and who have spent their time flying civilian-sims. In said cases I believe the easiest step to take is to come try how DCS handles under a familiar aircraft. If you only fly civ-sims a military aircraft with weapons is not going to feel familiar to you.
Sorry if I missed it, but doesn't the TF-51 provide a similar purpose already?
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Old 12-10-2017, 02:33 PM   #30
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Alot of aerobatic teams use mods most of the time anyway which are stated private. Noone likes flames, It may even be better if 2.5 was released first then the eagle, Because Caucasus is not exactly pretty in 1.5.8, Having the new graphics engine then the eagle would help because dcs would look prettier on its new terrain map? 2.5 engine would attract new customers even more i guess.
The problem of "ye olde Caucasus" is soon gone if news are to be believed. M3 stated the CE2 would be released some time late Q1 2018, where as ED has stated DCS:W 2.5 to be released "within less than two months".
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