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Old 12-01-2014, 12:51 PM   #21
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I agree, we just need to wait for more 3party developers. They will maybe provide what is needed for the flight training.
Just see the IRIS Simulations, they have their own A-10A 'combat ready' in FSX and have hangar full of trainers. These guys will be awesome 3party staff for the DCSWorld.

The reason developers 'throw' us right into the cockpit of F16, F15, A10, Ka50 etc. without the proper combat flight training is because they know that we have infinite virtual lives, so we can learn from our virtual erro.. mean deaths. But maybe we want to preserve also our virtual life to some extent...
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:07 PM   #22
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they've already planned a lots of trainer,such as TF-51,L-39,T1.MKI,C-101,this plane is enough for now.
from 2010 to now,there is still few dcs level fix wing rotor and jet(only 5 and will have 2 more before 2015),most of them is released in this year.
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Old 12-01-2014, 02:00 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flycat View Post
they've already planned a lots of trainer,such as TF-51,L-39,T1.MKI,C-101,this plane is enough for now.
...it's never enough
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Old 12-01-2014, 02:15 PM   #24
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I understand where you guys come from, but many of the training missions are already provided to you. The A-10C has many incredible training missions that you can really learn what you're doing. Just because you implement a C-172 doesn't mean that people will actually train, they will just run into the KA-50s slower online (jk).

It really just depends on the developers and community that know what they're doing to actually create training missions. Again however, the A-10 already has 99% of these, and really isn't that much harder to control than the C-172, just a little more to learn systems wise because there's not a grand total of 7 switches in the cockpit. I too am a CFI, CFII, commercial multi, and advanced ground instructor IRL, and to actually learn what you need is on par with actually getting your license, which for most is too much work.

The basics will be learned for most with these current modules if, like you said, you walk before you run. I spent an entire week learning how to fly the A-10 when I first bought it years ago, then another week learning weapons before I ever did a mission. It doesn't matter too much how much experience you have in a sim, because again, you have unlimited lives. It can be more trial and error.

I'm not saying it's an awful idea, but I'd rather see some shiny new fast movers or ground attack rather than planes i can fly backwards in if there's any wind at all (personal record is 12kts backwards).
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Old 12-01-2014, 03:40 PM   #25
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There is quite a challenge in this community in respect to prior knowledge and inflight implementation.
I have read tons of material regarding the Hog, F-15, Mustang and I can activate their avionics and other systems quite well.
But...when I flew with a great bunch of persons from this community in a simple mission I was blown away by the amount of knowledge I don't have regarding flight, flight regulations, flight basics, flight navigation..etc.
It became apparent that it's up to me to catch up and learn all that.
Now...I can play catch up as much as I want and still stay behind all the time...or...I can work hard, study hard, practice hard and become at least as good as others here.
I know that nothing can replace the butt feeling one has during flight, the enormity of being responsible for the lives of others or for a pretty expensive bird...and yet...I am willing to fly a flamingo (wether it be a 172 or whatever) if that shall make me a better DCS pilot.
I know how good I am and how better I can be once I walk the whole nine yards.
I'm sure that there are many others here who are just like me.
We don't need much...just one or two first stage planes, one or two medium stage plane and...well...we have the Hawk for the advanced stage.
I'm sure courses, curriculums, instructors and so on shall come along.
We have the best planes and simulator environment.
I hope in the future others won't need to go elsewhere (like FSX) for the basics...
What I am grateful for is your input as your point of you as a pilot and instructor.
I think there can be a solution in between so it won't hold back on seasoned pilots or other plane's development too much.
But...won't you mind having more and better DCS pilots in the community and up there in the Georgian skies?
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:01 PM   #26
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It's kind of a misconception that the C-172 is what new pilots learn on in the military... This is incorrect. I know this from experience. I was an IFS (Introductory Flight Screening) instructor last summer. IFS is the first stop for flight students if they have never had any prior flight experience, in which they work to solo and then they're done. Absolutely NO navigation knowledge is taught in the 172 (or diamonds, warriors, Cherokees, you name it), but simply what's required by the FAA, and then how to land. Can you land a plane on the sim? If so, you're already past that stage. After IFS, students move into primary flight training in the T-6 Texan. Yes, after about 10hrs in a C-172 they move from 160hp to 1,200hp. This is where they learn all the navigation and formation flying, as well as reinforcement of ground procedures they learn for flying. THE FLYING THEY DO IS PURELY TO GAIN MECHANICAL KNOWLEDGE (MUSCLE MEMORY). Every student comes into EVERY flight knowing 100% of what they need to do, they don't do much learning inside the aircraft other than the butt feelings of it. After primary, they then go to whatever pipeline they are selected into.


Quote:
Originally Posted by POLARIS1 View Post
But...when I flew with a great bunch of persons from this community in a simple mission I was blown away by the amount of knowledge I don't have regarding flight, flight regulations, flight basics, flight navigation..etc.
It's not uncommon to play with people who have been flying this sim for years. I myself have been flying this one alone for almost 4 years, as well as flying MFSX before that. You just simply cannot learn everything by yourself.

Going back to the A-10C tutorial missions for example, it explains navigation thoroughly. Again, there are no airways for you to follow as well. Sure, you could make your own though.

Flight regulations are nonexistent in this sim in terms of FAA general aviation regs- we're in another country entirely, as well as a combat zone. Unless you fly with former combat pilots, you won't know exactly the regs in the first place.

Regarding the basics of flight, 90% of the pilots online don't know what to say when entering a traffic pattern. On top of that, military traffic patterns aren't rectangles like they are in civil aviation, but ovals. In the words of a Hornet pilot I talked to last week, "It's just how you land the jet."

Quote:
Originally Posted by POLARIS1 View Post
It became apparent that it's up to me to catch up and learn all that.
Now...I can play catch up as much as I want and still stay behind all the time...or...I can work hard, study hard, practice hard and become at least as good as others here.
I know that nothing can replace the butt feeling one has during flight, the enormity of being responsible for the lives of others or for a pretty expensive bird...and yet...I am willing to fly a flamingo (wether it be a 172 or whatever) if that shall make me a better DCS pilot.
I know how good I am and how better I can be once I walk the whole nine yards.
I'm sure that there are many others here who are just like me.
We don't need much...just one or two first stage planes, one or two medium stage plane and...well...we have the Hawk for the advanced stage.
Flying a C-172, you will be in catch-up mode until you become knowledgeable on how to work radars, RWRs, etc. Experience in the real world is simply the number of hours you log, and to move up it's the number of hours in a specific air-frame that makes you experienced. You can't practice the things you need to be successful in a combat situation in a C-172. As long as you know how the controls work, and what happens when you manipulate the stick (or yoke in that case), you would be much better off gaining experience in the frame of your choosing. The Hawk would be more than enough for your intro needs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by POLARIS1 View Post
But...won't you mind having more and better DCS pilots in the community and up there in the Georgian skies?
Absolutely, but beginner aircraft are not the way to go. Nobody is going to drop MSFS (now owned by Lockheed Martin and named Prepar3d), and pay another $50 for a C-172 module, only to then pay more for an aircraft they want. There will always be a steep learning curve no matter what you do. You're going to get shot down a lot, but with a sim it's ok. In the real world, you wouldn't have hogs taking out SAMs, ATC wouldn't just stop working, and the AWAC would always work like it's supposed to, so a lot of the unknown is gone. A C-172 I am immediately against for this sim. A T-6 would be alright because they also have the new AT-6, and I'm sure some would enjoy that, and it would also add another attack aircraft to the fleet.

My advice- Join a squadron. Ask questions if you're unsure. There's a reason flight instructors are around, and it's because this is a field where you can't learn everything yourself.






Tl;dr- please go back through it if you skipped over it. Good info on a lot of topics.

Last edited by ttaylor0024; 12-01-2014 at 05:05 PM.
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Old 12-01-2014, 05:40 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lnr212 View Post
...we already had this discussion here ->http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=108549

But hell yeah, give us some cessnas. At least some L-19 Bird Dog or Skymaster.

Nearly every RL flightschool (also military) uses a 150/152/172... Why cant we have one in DCS? maybe theres a chance to get a "flightschool module".

No real fighterpilot starts in a hawk or mustang ;-)

There are many nice high quality models out there for other sims like those from carenado. Im no programmer, but wouldnt it be possible to build them also for DCS?

Example:

Attachment 108167 Attachment 108168 Attachment 108169

And for those guys which dont like the idea of cessnas in DCS, dont buy it

But I beleive there would be a good market for this....

You took it out of my mouth!!! Yes!! I second a 337 or a C172. This can be a great add-on to beginners of flight simulation, and can be very helpful in low altitude bush flying training. I have both 337 XP10 (carenado's) and 172 (A2A) and I mix and mash between the two. The weather system in DCS just could use a little touch by developers, and it should be the best sim platform in history.

I'd buy 172 again if it ever came to DCS. I mean its a readily accessible plane, you can almost hire one at any airfield and test it all you like, numerous pilots can give feedback to tune the flight model.

I'll prefer a non-glass avionics suite, the one having radios alone. I'm sure modders will be working their asses off modding wooden cockpits, textures. Fun for the whole family and not just plain bombing or fighter chase.


But lets descend to reality. This is digital combat simulator. I don't think developers would want a 4 passenger plane in the field, but if they do (quite a long shot), MANY MANY people from FSX will migrate to DCS and if weather system is fixed, even more people from XP10.

Also, AFAIK, a 3rd party developer expressed intent in a long list of future DCS projects to model the A340 MRTT. Being a huge supporter of Airbus (no flame wars just personal taste), I'll bite with teeth and sink fingernails into that one.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:19 PM   #28
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I think I wouldn't buy a C152 or a C172.
But I would maybe buy an O-2, if it is simulated to the standards I want.
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:34 PM   #29
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C'mon Guys, Flying Cessna is FUN!!!

Click image for larger version

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...100HP and 90 Knots of screaming Terror!

and for those of you who want to fly in a maybe future DCS:Vietnam scenery, besides Huey and Sabre and so on, a L-19 or Skymaster is a MUST

and so everyone can do and buy what he wants... isn't this great???
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Old 12-01-2014, 06:45 PM   #30
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Hm, sorry I don't get it. We have already a lot of prop planes (thanks to WW2) and as stated above, there are a couple of jet-trainers in the pipeline.

I have flown the 172 in the MS Flight Simulator, no need to do it here and pay 50 bucks for it.

Would never buy it...
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