Inflight Navigation

Hi anyone aware of being able to use ILS TACAN or some other aids for the Mi-8? I made a series of ILS missions for the A10-C which proved popular and if its possible to use nav aids then I will remake them for this fantastic helo:)

These days I get more enjoyment using the whole range of flight controls/instruments in whatever I fly than delivering weapons ;)

AFAIK this version is not compatible with those navigation systems. You can only use ADF.

And are both ADFs not implemented in the module yet? I know the ARK-15 isn't working yet, but what about the ARK-UD? And if it's working, how to use it?

Both ADF are not working at the moment..

I use the Doppler System wich is a great navigation aid and extremly precise.

Check this to learn how to use it...

http://www.alasrojas.com/2.0/foro/download/file.php?id=242&sid=3ccb42a3b948361bfd3233fff2a388c5

Its very simple... you just have to know two things..

Direction to destination

Distance to destination

I get both of this in the Map with "F10" or trough the mission editor waypoint.

Both ADF are not working at the moment..

 

I use the Doppler System wich is a great navigation aid and extremly precise.

 

Check this to learn how to use it...

http://www.alasrojas.com/2.0/foro/download/file.php?id=242&sid=3ccb42a3b948361bfd3233fff2a388c5

 

Its very simple... you just have to know two things..

Direction to destination

Distance to destination

 

I get both of this in the Map with "F10" or trough the mission editor waypoint.

I hope that we will get interactive training missions for the Doppler navigation and other navigation systems. Reading a manual just isn't enough for me to understand those things.. Or at least a demonstration video..

I get both of this in the Map with "F10" or trough the mission editor waypoint.

Yes, its actually rather easy to use, but be careful with the direction you get with the "ruler" on the F10 map. The doppler system wants true heading, but the ruler tool gives you heading relative to screen coordinates - heading 0 is straight up, and not along the longitude line wich it should be. You have to "guesstimate" the difference and adjust accordingly.

Very simple to use, Forget all the Test procedures for the doppler, and just go to the Basic Handling section.. Ill explain..

In the Copilot seat, you have your doppler (check the last picture)

Theres 3 options.

XTX Distance

Distance

Track

You will adjust just the Distance and the track..

As an example, you want to fly from Aiport "A" to Airport "B"...

You check in the mision editor or F10 map with the "Ruler" option your Track and distance.

Lets say that theres 50 Km between airport A and B in a direction of 090° (east)

You just set your distance either with the Left botton to 50km for a countdown from 50 to 0 as you get closer to airport B or use the Right Botton to 50.. to get a count from 0 to 50

(remember this is the second number.. not the first XTK Distance)

And the Third number is your Track.. just put 090° there..

Turn the doppler on..

Take off and fly heading 090.. you will see in the XTK Distance option starts to drift either left or right.. this is because of drift wind etc..

If the XTK distance show a deviation of 1km to the right.. you need to compensate to the left.. lets turn your heading to 095° or 100°... this way the XTK start to descrease.

The goal is to keep XTK distance at 0 all the time. this way you will be traveling a straight line.

I recomend using the MI8 English cockpit mod.. so you dont get confused with russian (left and Right)

Can you not call up the airport your heading for and get distance and heading from atc ?

...

I have been subtracting 6 degrees from the map heading for magnetic variation and putting that in the Doppler. That has been working for me. Magnetic variation is the differences from true North, which is what the map reads and the ruler gives you, and magnetic North which is what your compass reads as north.

...true North, which is what the map reads and the ruler gives you

Unfortunately not. See quote below, but 6 degrees is somewhat good average if you dont have a real map and a protractor at hand.

I've posted the answer to this question several times before, but finding those posts can be tough, so you are forgiven for not finding them :)

 

The DCS map is flat, but it has a spherical coordinate system projected onto it (Lat/Lon).

 

Some game code (the ME, and last I checked, radio calls) use the map x-axis as the north direction, while avionics code uses a line of constant longitude as the north direction. It is probably best to consider this line of constant longitude the "true" north/south direction, as in the real world, it is. In the following discussion then, "true north" refers to this line of constant longitude in the direction of increasing latitude.

 

So due to the projection used to map latitude/longitude onto the flatworld DCS map, the x axis only perfectly aligns with true north at the map's central meridian, 33 degrees longitude. If you are off of that central meridian, then "true" north is different than the x-axis. The further you get from 33 degrees longitude, the larger the difference exists between true north and the x-axis. In the areas where we typically fly missions, the x-axis is typically 3-7 degrees to the east of true north.

 

It would probably be best if, for all displays of direction, true north was used, but the problem is relatively minor overall.

Unfortunately not? 6 degree variation is what is on the DCS approach plates for all the airports in the game. Being instrument rated in helicopters I hope I read the plates correctly.

http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/fxd_wing/comp.htm

Both ADF are not working at the moment.

Thanks for the answer and the link, Alfredo.

Unfortunately not? 6 degree variation is what is on the DCS approach plates for all the airports in the game. Being instrument rated in helicopters I hope I read the plates correctly.

 

http://www.pilotfriend.com/training/flight_training/fxd_wing/comp.htm

You are reading the charts correct :thumbup:

But, in-game, the ruler on the F10 doesnt give you true or magnetic, it gives you heading relative to the up/down axis on the map, wich has nothing to do with real life navigation.

Both ADF are not working at the moment..

 

I use the Doppler System wich is a great navigation aid and extremly precise.

 

Check this to learn how to use it...

http://www.alasrojas.com/2.0/foro/download/file.php?id=242&sid=3ccb42a3b948361bfd3233fff2a388c5

 

Its very simple... you just have to know two things..

Direction to destination

Distance to destination

 

I get both of this in the Map with "F10" or trough the mission editor waypoint.

Wow Thanks Alfredo. How did you figure it out? Was it in the manual?

You are reading the charts correct :thumbup:

But, in-game, the ruler on the F10 doesnt give you true or magnetic, it gives you heading relative to the up/down axis on the map, wich has nothing to do with real life navigation.

For me, using the map and ruler works well enough for now. Set a course, check the offset a bit later then make a guess as to the correct course. Works well enough for now in most cases till the other systems are activated

Both ADF are not working at the moment.

Okaaay, so I did some tests. I don't know if one of the updates changed that or if it was so from the beginning, but АРК-УД does in fact work (at least partially).

In order to use it, you'll need a radio transmitting in AM (haven't tried FM) at the right frequency. This thread explains how to set one up:

http://forum.lockon.ru/showthread.php?t=102687

Once you got that, start the mission and follow these steps:

1) Turn the АРК-УД mode dial to УП (so one notch to the right after the default ВЫКЛ position).

2) Select the proper channel using the channel selector and УКВ/ДЦВ switch. The УКВ channel frequencies are:

Channel 1 - 114.166 MHz

Channel 2 - 114.333 MHz

Channel 3 - 114.583 MHz

Channel 4 - 121.500 MHz

Channel 5 - 123.100 MHz

Channel 6 - 124.100 MHz

The ДЦВ channels are:

Channel 1 - 243.000 MHz

Other channels are not used by default.

3) The light above the УП mode notch will light up if the transmitter is in range. You can switch the radio selector to the АРК-2 position if you want to listen to the transmission.

4) Make sure the switch below the commander's HSI is set to the right position (I forgot how it's labeled, but it selects which ADF is controlling the HSI needle).

The commander's HSI needle should now be pointing at your transmitter.

I haven't been able to get the other modes to work sadly.

Here's some info in Russian about the real thing: http://oleg-tulin.narod.ru/index/0-14.

Very useful Imp thanks, Is it not possible to have a ground unit broadcast for you using one of the preset freqs?

The ДЦВ channels are:

Channel 1 - 243.000 MHz

Hi imp can you post the english names as I have Devrims English cockpit mod. Also would you be able to post screenshots of the correct positions of switches and dials. Are the presets all set up by default ? I have a hummer with the first freq transmitting on a loop but unsure wether US and Soviet radios are compatible:helpsmilie:

This is the info from the Mi17 manual

7.2.7. APK-YA VHF-UHF Automatic Direction Finder

Use the APK-YA UHF VHF ADF proceed as follows:

(1) Switch on the VHF ADF (PAAVlOKOMnAC YKB) and INT (CnY) circuit

breakers located on the overhead electrical control panel.

(1a) Set the MF ADF -VHF ADF switch to VHF ADF position (for the helicopters,

which are not equipped with 6CYn-2K indicator of the VHF-UHF

ADF).

(2) Set the interphone control box communication channel selector switch to

ADF 2 (PK 2) and the ICS-RADIO (CnY-PAAVlO) selector switch to

RADIO (PAAVlO).

(3) Set the mode selector switch on the control panel to BB (Illfl), the frequency

range selector switch to USW (YKB) and the CHANNELS

(KAHAnbl) selector switch to 4, and the receiver own noise should be

heard in the earphones.

(4) Depress the TEST (KOHTP) button and keep it depressed until the ADF

indicator pointer sets to 180° ± 13°. As it takes place, the NB (Yl'l) and

BB (nW) indicating lights should illuminate and the audio frequency signalshollid

be heard in the headphones.

(5) Depress the LOOP L (AHT. rt) or LOOP R (AHT. n) button and, holding

the TEST (KOHTP) button depressed, set the ADF indicator pointer to

30° (or 330°), release the L (Jl) or R (n) button, and the pointer should return

to 180° ± 13°.

(6) Perform a similar test with the mode selector switch set to NB (Yn) position

(the NB (Yn) light should come on) and then to PULSE (Vl) position (the Vl

and possibly yn lights should come on). With the mode selector switch set to

PULSE (Vl), an audio signal of reduced frequency should be heard in the

Flight manual

headphones.

(7) Set the frequency range selector switch on the ADF control panel to

DMW (,[iLlB) and the CHANNEL (KAHAn) selector switch to 1. Functionally

check the UHF VHF ADF in the BB (Wn), PULSE (111) and NB (Yn)

modes following the above procedure.

Note. It is allowed to functionally check the ADF in the frequency ranges

and modes to be used in the mission.

Any help deciphering this info would be good:)

Just to remind: This would be the UHF-Guard frequencies for emergency...

Yes, and 121.500 MHz is the civilian VHF emergency frequency. The ARK-UD, if I understand correctly, is designed primarily to search for emergency beacons. The other ARK is your "normal" ADF.

Hi imp can you post the english names as I have Devrims English cockpit mod.

АРК-УД is of course ARK-UD, the name of the device.

УП - Narrow mode.

ВЫКЛ - Off.

УКВ and ДЦВ - VHF and UHF respectively. This is a little confusing, cause УКВ literally means "ultra short waves", but it corresponds to the English VHF range, not the UHF range. ДЦВ means "decimetric waves" - so the UHF range.

Also would you be able to post screenshots of the correct positions of switches and dials.

Sure, as soon as I'm back home.

Are the presets all set up by default ? I have a hummer with the first freq transmitting on a loop but unsure wether US and Soviet radios are compatible:helpsmilie:

Yes, the presets are set in the game by default (and they correspond to the default settings of the real device - that's Belsimtek quality for you).

Ok, now I understand. So we mainly have an ADF here, sensing for VHF and UHF transmissions instead of common LF and MF NDBs.

And the ARK-UD being a submode for quick location of comrades in emergencies...

The УКВ-Thing is the same in Germany, we also call it UKW (Ultrakurzwelle), widely used for the 87.5-108 MHz radio band. Formerly used for radio communications throughout the VHF-band.

Ok, now I understand. So we mainly have an ADF here, sensing for VHF and UHF transmissions instead of common LF and MF NDBs.

And the ARK-UD being a submode for quick location of comrades in emergencies...

Not exactly. There are two separate devices. The first one is the ARK-15, which is a normal ADF - with the ability to manually dial in frequencies in the LF/MF range. This device is not yet implemented. And the second one is the ARK-UD. ARK-UD is not a mode of the ADF, but a whole independent device.

There's a switch under the HSI to choose which device will control the needle. Putting it in the left position selects the ARK-15, and in the right position - ARK-UD. Also on the radio panel in the upper part of the cockpit (the one where you switch from intercom to radio, during startup) you have a big switch for selecting which radio you'll hear in the headphones. The last two positions are ADF-1 and ADF-2 - ARK-15 and ARK-UD respectively.

Here's some info about the ARK-15:

http://www.crown-airforce.narod.ru/technics/aviapribor/navy/ark15.html

Just view it through google translate. It should give you an idea how the other ADF will work once it's ready.

The УКВ-Thing is the same in Germany, we also call it UKW (Ultrakurzwelle), widely used for the 87.5-108 MHz radio band. Formerly used for radio communications throughout the VHF-band.

Uhuh, УКВ actually transliterates to UKV. In Polish we also use the same term (Ultra Krótkie Fale, UKF).

Yaay I got it working in a mission :)

But this thread is becoming very informative so please continue with screenshots for people like me who need visuals to grasp things:thumbup:

Doh no I did not,

I have tried a vehicle with the first preset freq with no joy. I have also tried to broadcast radio via trigger and that failed too. If anyone succeeds let me know.:cry

Well it's taken all day but I finally got it operating with a trigger broadcasting on channel 1 so now I should be able to incorporate it into a mission.