F-15C vs F-15E - Page 4 - ED Forums
 


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Old 05-20-2020, 07:41 AM   #31
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Thanks for clarification, i agree with most of your statement but not with all, thats life and fine.


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Originally Posted by Kev2go View Post
....They released a nearly complete module at release. Good for them that really isn't raising the bar...
If i compare that with other 3rd party devs or even ED it's quite some accomplishment considering it's their first full blown DCS module

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...And IMHO the 3d interior cockpit detail is somewhat bland compared to ED and 3rd parties. But maybe that's just me....
Their artist was in hospital for some time(months), he/she(?) is updating the interior/exterior step by step now. But the truth is, the JF-17 has a rather "boring" cockpit to begin with

Quick google search:



Oh and sorry for the whole OT thing.
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Old 05-22-2020, 12:42 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Kev2go View Post
Heatblur and Dekka dont have an entire game engine to support and expand upon. They have the luxuary of only making modules.
The game engine that ED charges them 30% or more of their sales to use? The game engine ED constantly changes and breaks their module with? A game engine that is spasmodically broken half the time that does an incredibly poor job of simulating modern combat? That engine? Wow, such luxury. Plus Deka is probably a team of less than 10 part timers, while ED has what 100+ employees... Seriously Kev?
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Old 05-22-2020, 12:45 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Wizard_03 View Post
See I'm probably in the minority here but just having the ability to do multi-crew is enough for me. Having a real person in the back is far superior to an AI, Jester is good but flights with him are actually more work for me, because I feel like I need to baby sit him and constantly tell him how to do his job lol. Don't get me wrong though he adds lots of immersion and is IMHO absolutely essential for that particular platform in this game when your solo or in SP.

However when it comes to the F-15E, sure having a back seat AI would add some more immersion and fidelity but the way I see actual day to day use in game with solo play or SP is going to be something like this; Me bringing up the radial menu and finding the right command and saying "hey WSO do this task for me" or I can save ten seconds and do it myself...So Yeah it'd be cool for sure but I just don't see myself actually using it to the degree you HAVE to in DCS: F-14. I know that's not how it works in the real deal but it is what it is for DCS. If you want to get hyper realism, you should find a buddy and do multi-crew.

Perhaps some refinement is in order for Jester down the road but that's my hot take on back seat AIs
Yeah, if i can find a few reliable human backseaters i might be tempted, cuz youre right jester does kinda suck. But so far wizzos online that fit my schedule are pretty hard to find, though ive enjoyed the f14 10x more with a GIB. Hence my preference for an AI even if it jester.
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Old 05-22-2020, 02:05 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
The game engine that ED charges them 30% or more of their sales to use? The game engine ED constantly changes and breaks their module with? A game engine that is spasmodically broken half the time that does an incredibly poor job of simulating modern combat? That engine? Wow, such luxury. Plus Deka is probably a team of less than 10 part timers, while ED has what 100+ employees... Seriously Kev?
If it's that poor I don't get why you're still here and not anywhere else bearing in mind the overwhelming competence this game has . I guess it's so easy to keep a game engine up to date for years and years nobody understands why ED doesn't do it better, and quicker, and cheaper, or even for free.


S!
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Old 05-22-2020, 09:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Harlikwin View Post
The game engine that ED charges them 30% or more of their sales to use? The game engine ED constantly changes and breaks their module with? A game engine that is spasmodically broken half the time that does an incredibly poor job of simulating modern combat? That engine? Wow, such luxury. Plus Deka is probably a team of less than 10 part timers, while ED has what 100+ employees... Seriously Kev?

Yes It takes time to get places. The game needs to evolve. It can't stay the same forever. Ive been around longer than you i remember the pre DC 2.5 EDGe days.


I have the benefit of perspective of seeing the evolution and appreciating the changes made. There are those who have been around even longer than me. And this game is fundamentally better now than it was back when DCS V1.2 was a thing. Dynamic Campaign and many other features for better "battlespace simulation" is eventually going to be a thing.


IF you think DCS is so poor at everything, why bother playing DCS or using ED products?
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:11 PM   #36
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@Kev2Go
Yeah, it's come a long way. I think my very first forays, 1.2 was still a thing. That was way before I started scorching the forums, of course.
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Old 05-22-2020, 10:22 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Dr_Arrow View Post
I am completely with Harlikwin on this one. If F-15E was and still is operated in a way where the WSO does all the A/G stuff, target acquisition, lasing, weapon profiles, radar and CMS management; I definitely won't buy F-15E without AI WSO and just haul a dead WSO in the back doing all his stuff by myself. For me there is no point in having all the systems modeling and FM made to perfection, but operate the aircraft in a completely different way than it is operated/flown in the real world.
The real F-15E can be flown that pilot does everything. It is as well trained such, but it is not operated such.
Like other WSO platforms, the WSO has special controls that pilot doesn't have, as well priority for sensors. The pilot can do all same tasking, but just limited controls and displays, as well training.

Unlike the hornet, WSO has permanent stick and throttle (little limited one) and could fly and fight from rear. But again not trained to be a fighter pilot.

Nothing would deny F-15E to be flown alone as F-15C, you can leave extra tanks to base, pods etc and go just flying like F-15C in better performance. So you get both same time, C and E as one and capability do both.

And again, even today F-15C greatest upgrade is the PAD. That is there mainly for a new sniper TPOD, and to show engine management and RWR display that were in its place.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ts-f-15c-fleet

The F-15C wouldn't be so amazing as full fidelity module, far from it by its old design, that makes all others look very modern.
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zon...ts-f-15c-fleet

https://www.globalsecurity.org/milit...e/01jhmcs.html

https://books.google.com/books?id=8e...page&q&f=false

The F-15C would be as full fidelity module not much different from current one, what now just managing more of its systems. And F-15E is major upgrade to its capabilities even as air to air set for the pilot.

And what comes to a WSO, i would take one even to Su-25T in a heartbeat. As it would be so much easier to fly fast attacks with a second performing the systems. As you do not come for a second round to try again after failed strike in first pass.
This is not so on helicopters where you gave more changes and KA-50 works great as solo pilot, but then again it is not for a attack like Mi-24 is.
This is as well reason I hope heatblur gets permission to turn their A-6 to full fidelity module from AI-only, as it would be the real ground pounder with interesting missions.

I will skip F-15E in begin as I hope to experience F-111 and Su-24 first with the A-6.

It is really a boring thing how we now start to demand a second player with us. As even if we could build second VR set easily next to, getting the person fly there is challenge for many.
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:34 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Fri13 View Post
The F-15C wouldn't be so amazing as full fidelity module, far from it by its old design, that makes all others look very modern.
The Eagle has a dated cockpit in modern terms for sure, but for its time it was quite advanced. It wouldn't match the F-16/18 in complexity or functionality, but it far exceeds the F-14 for example and the M2000. Being a FC3 module is definitely costing us some features.



Quote:
The F-15C would be as full fidelity module not much different from current one, what now just managing more of its systems.
This is true, but I think it's also significant. FC3 does an OK job of simulating aircraft, but again that simplicity comes at a cost. Radio is one example. Full modules give you much more control over what you end up hearing. FC3 aircraft just tune in to every channel at once. It can be painful to sort out radio traffic in large missions. The current F-15's radar is also pretty badly handicapped in terms of range and configuration. The one MFD it has is also stuck on the stores page which isn't terrible useful for me (though I admit I don't know the full functionality of this system). But in short one of the strong points of DCS is producing a convincing simulation of an aircraft. I'd definitely consider upgrading from FC3 to full worth it, even if the aircraft is "the same". You can also look at it in reverse. If say the F-16 went from full to FC3, you might end up losing things like EXP mode, SAM mode, datalink display or configurable stores. The DED would likely not be accessible with all of its helpful pages, etc.
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