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Old 05-16-2019, 08:09 AM   #1
parxuk
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Default Rift for £199 or Rift S for £399

I'm just trying to get back in to flight simming after a long break. I have upgraded my hardware but sill have an OLD and not very good 1080 32" TV.

I fancy trying VR. I will likely only use it for flight sim.

I know the Rift S is coming out in the UK next week at a price of £399. The original bundle of the Rift has now gone on sale for £199. I think this only includes 1 sensor.

Would this suffice for DCS or do i need to buy more sensors before I can play it?

Am I likely better off just waiting for the S? (though double the cost)

Thanks
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Old 05-16-2019, 08:16 AM   #2
Mr_sukebe
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Ask us in a week, by which time, some of us should have practical experience.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:30 AM   #3
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For just cockpit style games one sensor is enough.
Sure two is better, it stabilizes and you won't loose tracking just because the cat sits in front of it.

But unless this is an old kit.
Like 2+ years old and used, it was switched for the newer touch included kit around that time. And hasn't been sold since.

I would, recommend the S, even the small increase in resolution would be substantial.
With the current rift the smaller steam gauges andeven mfd screen is nearly impossible to read easily without relying on zoom.
And even a small increase will be substantial.

And it should be designed for a comfier fit and simplified setup.

As simmers just not needing two less usb ports is almost enough of a reason.
Currently my setup takes.
Extra keyboard, extra trackball.
Pedals, throttle, two joysticks, and two cougar mfd button frames.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:37 AM   #4
p1t1o
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parxuk View Post
I'm just trying to get back in to flight simming after a long break. I have upgraded my hardware but sill have an OLD and not very good 1080 32" TV.

I fancy trying VR. I will likely only use it for flight sim.

I know the Rift S is coming out in the UK next week at a price of £399. The original bundle of the Rift has now gone on sale for £199. I think this only includes 1 sensor.

Would this suffice for DCS or do i need to buy more sensors before I can play it?

Am I likely better off just waiting for the S? (though double the cost)

Thanks
1st gen HMDs are going to give you a sub-par VR experience, issues with reading instruments etc.

But it would at least give you a feel for what VR can offer (its a gamechanger, literally. Personally I would recommend NOT discounting its uses outside of simming) if you consider £199 an acceptable price to "trial" VR before you drop a larger amount on a gen 1.5/2 set.

Right now is juuuuuuuuust before the perfect time to get into VR. There are a large number of new headsets just about to release with widely varied features. None of us know for sure yet, which ones will have what relative pros&cons, all we can do is speculate based on the specs given to us.

***

I have heard that a single sensor is sufficient for seated, sim use. However, these things can be somewhat subjective (room geometry, seat+desk positioning, personal shape and size, personal movement types etc etc etc ad infinitum)
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:40 AM   #5
NeilWillis
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When the Rift Sis released there will be plenty of cheap Rifts around. You’ll pick them up for less than 200.

You can also see how the community reacts to the S and have a more informed choice to make.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:53 AM   #6
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Probably should hold out for the S.
Once in the CV1, you will just want the upgrade of the S more.

Although not expecting earth shattering improvement, it will be an improvement none the less.
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Old 05-16-2019, 10:56 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parxuk View Post
The original bundle of the Rift has now gone on sale for £199. I think this only includes 1 sensor.

Would this suffice for DCS or do i need to buy more sensors before I can play it?
For DCS is enough, you'll never have oclusion betten the HMD and the sensor.
Didn't know there were still those packs, you'll get also the Oculus Remote, and the Guitar Hero touch holder ...

The Rift S is a Bitter sidegrade, what IPD do you have ? If you are near the average (63mm) you'll have a very good sweet spot, but if you have it near the limits, you'll have a small sweet spot.
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Old 05-16-2019, 11:26 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob_Bushman View Post
With the current rift the smaller steam gauges andeven mfd screen is nearly impossible to read easily without relying on zoom.
I see this quite often - but I completely disagree. I've never had issues reading the analogue gauges in any DCS aircraft, or the MFDs.

My hardware has been at the lower end of the VR spec, too, though better now.

I think it must be either set-up (i.e. Rift not positioned correctly) or poor eyesight. I use prescription lenses with mine, and I also know that a very small movement of the headset (usually up or down) can change the clarity of gauges a lot. Otherwise, I'm stumped why people are having issues with this. I only use zoom in the VC when I need a very precise setting or reading.

To the OP, I'd say get the Rift S, too.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:37 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brixmis View Post
I see this quite often - but I completely disagree. I've never had issues reading the analogue gauges in any DCS aircraft, or the MFDs.

My hardware has been at the lower end of the VR spec, too, though better now.

I think it must be either set-up (i.e. Rift not positioned correctly) or poor eyesight. I use prescription lenses with mine, and I also know that a very small movement of the headset (usually up or down) can change the clarity of gauges a lot. Otherwise, I'm stumped why people are having issues with this. I only use zoom in the VC when I need a very precise setting or reading.

To the OP, I'd say get the Rift S, too.
It may be an issue with detail settings and hardware setup, I had a Vive pro, but couldnt get decent FPS on anything other than minimum settings, and MFDs were unreadable without zoom or bending down do look closer.

In my experience, no bug or problem is ever perceived in the same way by everybody, which makes sense given the huge vector-space of hardware setups.
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Old 05-16-2019, 01:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p1t1o View Post
1st gen HMDs are going to give you a sub-par VR experience, issues with reading instruments etc.
I remember when the VR was the hot hot thing, I stated that CV1 while was great for the feeling of flying and helping in landing etc, the 5th generation (CV1 i 5th generation, previous 4th generation is at least 10 year before the DK1) is not yet enough for the great experience of flying because you have issues with cockpit instruments reading.

For that, I was so crucified by the fans of the VR, explaining how they can read everything perfectly or at least "without effort".

Now when we are getting a improved version from the current generation that increase definition and clarity, people start to admit more that the current generation wasn't so great after all for the instruments and labels etc and they need to use zoom or seriously lean forward or even use camera positions to operate the sidepanels etc.

And I still state my opinion since the CV1 release. Once we get the definition that we can read all the instruments and all the labels without zoom or without leaning forward or trying to make out what is written or is it 82% or 81%, then we reach the moment that VR is good enough for virtual pilots. That means a player can glance any instrument and make out the texts and numbers without effort, without thinking that is the number 5 or 6 etc.

And so far the Rift S might be the first one to really do that for the lowest price, and considerably lower hardware performance impact (same as Rift CV1), what will be its major selling point.

The Rift CV1 is not horrible, but it is not amazing. Studying, learning and using various aircrafts is trouble as you can't make out what is the instrument saying, like you can't see in F-5 a Mach value in the speed instrument. In AV-8B Harrier it is difficult to read the weapons loadout screen and to operate a TAD in A-10C or F/A-18C is next to impossible, and reading a radar TDC numerical values or the target track information or even their heading is very difficult. Leaning does help, but not always enough. Meaning the CV1 will cause you spend more time with Heads Down Displays than a PC screen does. But if the Rift S will fix that you get more definition, faster way to see what is written or symbolized, then all is just better and better.

For a £200 difference between CV1 and S, I would go for the S. Every bit that makes you less to lean forward, less frustrated to guess what you are trying to read, better spotting etc, all will quickly come much better value to the £200 price.

And avoiding the extra cables, external sensors and having just one USB and one DP cable, that is just huge thing.

The only downside I see in the Rift S really is the sound system. How well does the speakers work. No, not that "They are worse than in Rift CV1" as the CV1 headphones already are amazing, hard to get better than those. But if the S open speakers are better than good enough, then it will be huge thing as well.

But even today the major problem in VR are a lot outside of the hardware itself. Like one of the real annoying things is the DCS third person camera system. You get crashed, what happens? You are moved to external camera that is just meter away from the impact zone, even volume at 40% your ears will almost blow out because someone has nice idea that the camera should be exactly middle of the highest volume source. Same thing is when you are dead, you jump outside an look the aircraft burning and full engine power screaming front of you.

Like how about actually making the camera jump like 500 meters from your death position instead in the ground zero or track the wreck at couple meters?

That sound problem is one major user experience killer. Requiring you to do all kind things to avoid your hearing to go tinning. And no HMD is going to change that, until ED changes it!
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