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Old 05-10-2019, 01:40 PM   #1
p1t1o
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Default Index vs Reverb

So it seems like the reverb with its higher res is a market-killer. On paper, should blow all competitors out of the water.

But I've just dropped a chunk on an Index.

Does the Index have any advantages over the reverb? Have I made the wrong call?
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Old 05-10-2019, 01:46 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p1t1o View Post
So it seems like the reverb with its higher res is a market-killer. On paper, should blow all competitors out of the water.

But I've just dropped a chunk on an Index.

Does the Index have any advantages over the reverb? Have I made the wrong call?
Well considering it has the same resolution as the Original Odyssey, Vive Pro and the Odyssey+, the index is just another gen 1 - 1.5 headset. Not to mention the Odyssey+ has the Anti-SDE filter which surpasses the original Odyssey and Vive Pro in terms of visuals. Take that for what you will.
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:00 PM   #3
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The Index beats the Vive Pro - which I used to have - on all counts, across the board. At least on paper.

And it sounds like the Index counters SDE with more than just a filter screen.

Although - stupid me - I just rememberd that I *havnt* actually dropped any money on an Index yet, I've only pre-ordered, of course



Is the general consensus that the Reverb is going to be the top of the range?
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:08 PM   #4
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On paper the Index has better optics, and a bit wider field of view. Also runs at a lower resolution, which may mean that aliasing will still be a problem and require super sampling/aggressive AA.

Reverb has a much higher pixel density, but a lower FoV. Optics will be worse than the Index, but it's hard to say how much that will matter.

Honestly right now? It's too soon to say which will be the better HMD for DCS. Neither are in the hands of consumers.
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:18 PM   #5
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I can add that even with the decent resolution of the vive pro, I could still commonly see fresnel-artifacts, and deeper towards the center than just peripheral vision. I get the feeling that that optics in the Vive are responsible for some of the difficulty in reading instruments - hence the popularity of lens mods.

*edit*

After a bit of googling...

Oh, so reverb has inside-out, 2 camera tracking? Score one for the Index. Outside-in is going to be the highest fidelity tracking for a while yet, and the Index base stations are quite improved over current lighthouses.
Tracks controllers only in your FOV? Score 2 for Index.
Visible "mura" (uneven backlighting) in the display? Not great. Apparently about equivalent to a SDE.
Fixed IPD. Really not great.
Fresnel lenses about on par with the Vive. Meh.


At this time, my opinion is that the increased res is great, but its going to severely affect FPS, and with the above Im still leaning towards investing in the Index system. It certainly has the most advanced controllers available (not really applicable to DCS, but DCS is not the only VR app).

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Old 05-10-2019, 02:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p1t1o View Post
The Index beats the Vive Pro - which I used to have - on all counts, across the board. At least on paper.

And it sounds like the Index counters SDE with more than just a filter screen.

Although - stupid me - I just rememberd that I *havnt* actually dropped any money on an Index yet, I've only pre-ordered, of course



Is the general consensus that the Reverb is going to be the top of the range?
What about the Index counters SDE? it is the same resolution and is an RGB screen. It will still have plenty of SDE to go around. Am I missing something in the specs?
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Old 05-10-2019, 03:07 PM   #7
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It's a matter of priority.

If you play others room scale game, you may be better with Rift S/ Imdex. (Controllers and light house for Index).

But if you're mainly playing car/ flight simulators I think the Reverb will be better, you won't use the controllers that much.

Tracking on WMR headset had proved to be good enough for the headset, the only problem being some dead spot for controllers.

One test was very picky about mura effect on one headset. It isn't enough to bury the Reverb yet.
I don't think the lens are bad enough to negate the effect of higher pixel density.
MRTV first report on Reverb is quite good about clarity.
You don't notice the mura effect on screenshot though the lens.
People playing on 1440p headsets like 5K+ still add super sampling.
I don't think Reverb will that much more taxing on performance, you will need less super sampling if any at all.
1600p on Index is barely above 1440p.

And finally the Reverb is 40% cheaper.

PS: anti SDE filters are the same as pass through filters on digital cameras. It adds blue to the image and degrade sharpness.
Not something I want...
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Old 05-10-2019, 03:31 PM   #8
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What about the Index counters SDE? it is the same resolution and is an RGB screen. It will still have plenty of SDE to go around. Am I missing something in the specs?
The display tech in the Index has a physical pixel layout that physically does not have as much dead space, significantly reducing SDE. This has the added bonus of also enhancing "percieved" resolution as the pixel layout more reliably produces clear lines. Apparently anyway.

I looked up a couple of examples of "pentile" OLED (Vive et al) vs LCD (Index), that were unrelated to these particular headsets. In the OLED image, you could easily recognise the SDE as what you see in the Vives, in the LCD example it was much reduced.

Here:


(if you de-magnify the image a bit, you will see the SDE "jump out" on the left part of the image. Either way, both are the same resolution, but the LCD gives improved clarity.)

Vive et al do *not* have RGB screens, they are GB/GR screens (pixels alternate between GB and GR) this is why the SDE is so pronounced.

I dont know what display tech the Reverb uses.

Last edited by p1t1o; 05-10-2019 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 05-10-2019, 03:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p1t1o View Post
The display tech in the Index has a physical pixel layout that physically does not have as much dead space, significantly reducing SDE. This has the added bonus of also enhancing "percieved" resolution as the pixel layout more reliably produces clear lines. Apparently anyway.

I looked up a couple of examples of "pentile" OLED (Vive et al) vs LCD (Index), that were unrelated to these particular headsets. In the OLED image, you could easily recognise the SDE as what you see in the Vives, in the LED example it was much reduced.

Here:

(if you de-magnify the image a bit, you will see the SDE "jump out" on the left image. Either way, both are the same resolution, but the LCD gives improved clarity.)

Vive et al do *not* have RGB screens, they are GB/GR screens (pixels alternate between GB and GR) this is why the SDE is so pronounced.

I dont know what display tech the Reverb uses.
Interesting. Thanks!
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Old 05-10-2019, 04:03 PM   #10
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Tell you waht guys, if we all chip in, I can buy a Reverb and an Index and Ill write an in depth comparison.

Deal?

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