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Old 03-06-2019, 11:35 AM   #21
Yeti42
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Lua editing? Is that really necessary? Can't you just remove the Optical tracker from a Rapier site to force it to use radar guidance with the Blindfire Tracker?
So, what happens if you just place a Rapier with a Blindfire Tracker, but without the Optical Tracker? Won't it engage at all?
Unfortunately I did not had the time yet to test this myself.
Why don't you try it and find out?
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Old 03-06-2019, 03:10 PM   #22
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Why don't you try it and find out?
As I said before: I did not had the time to do so yet. I will test it as soon as I can (probably next weekend).
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:22 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by QuiGon View Post
Lua editing? Is that really necessary? Can't you just remove the Optical tracker from a Rapier site to force it to use radar guidance with the Blindfire Tracker?
So, what happens if you just place a Rapier with a Blindfire Tracker, but without the Optical Tracker? Won't it engage at all?
Unfortunately I did not had the time yet to test this myself.
I tried this morning and the launcher will not fire without the optical tracker and the blindfire radar together in my experience.
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Old 03-07-2019, 06:36 AM   #24
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I tried this morning and the launcher will not fire without the optical tracker and the blindfire radar together in my experience.
So it needs both trackers to be operational in DCS? That doesn't sound realistic to me?
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:54 PM   #25
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Just noticed this thread so I hope this helps. A Rapier launcher, optical tracker and radar tracker is one fire unit. It could be deployed as an optical or combined system but nothing works without the launcher or optical tracker.
The launcher, as far as I can remember, is deployed 26 to 28 meters from the optical tracker and the radar tracker deployed on the oposite side of the optical at about 6-7 meters. The launcher containa a surveillance radar and a command transmitter, the optical tracker is more or less just that and the radar tracker once a target is detected searches and then tracks the target. I'm not going to talk about sop's cos they changed over the years but in real life no operator will fire at you if you are beaming.
Before anyone asks, yes I worked on Rapier FSA/B1/B1MLI and B1TDU over about 13 years or so. Don't ask me about FSC, I know a bit but was never trained on it. Oh BTW the towing eye on lancher and RT (for real) point 3200 mils from datum whereas the middle leg on the optical points to datum.
Hope this helps, most of this info if not all is on the internet prolly
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Old 05-20-2019, 06:47 AM   #26
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Thanks, that's some really interesting info! So if I understand correctly, this means that the Rapier does indeed not work with only one of the two trackers (optical/radar)?
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:30 AM   #27
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Not quite, it could be deployed as an optical system, launcher and optical tracker, or combined launcher , optical tracker and radar tracker. You must have the launcher, for obvious reasons and you must have the optical tracker because thats where the operator sits with all the luvely buttons, switches and knobs. The radar tracker is for blind engagements, cloud, night and wotnot.
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Old 05-20-2019, 08:53 AM   #28
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You'll have to excuse a lack of full actual experimentation, but my experience when trying to collect data for a wiki page on how it works in DCS is this:

• You must deploy it with all parts (radar, optical tracker, launcher) for it to function.
• It will use the radar if available.
• If the radar is blow up, the optical tracking will continue to work.

I never got it to actually work if I built a group consisting of only optical tracker and launcher, even though that should work. That could just be a matter of engagement range or some other launch limits though, and I simply never flew in a way that presented a proper target.
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:10 AM   #29
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@Scania203: Thanks, now I understand how it's supposed to work

@Tippis: Thanks, that would have been my next question, how DCS handles it. You answered it already.
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Old 05-20-2019, 11:03 AM   #30
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It was indeed not very effective during the Falkland War, mainly because of its very short range. IIRC it was used as a point defense system to protect the british landing site from air attack, which it mostly did by deterrence. The Rapier missiles in use were also not fitted with proximity fuzes which made it necessary to hit the target directly, which, I guess, is not easy to do with an optical guided system.


There were a number of problems with it during the Falklands, there were some major serviceability issue after the long sea journey that affected the launchers and the missiles.


There were also issues with the search radar. When you look at the missile launcher there is a search radar under the dome. This was used to cue the optical tracker in the right direction, when the gunner lined up the crosshairs on a target he would also get an in range light in his viewer. The Rapiers that were setup in the main British landing point of San Carlos water couldn`t use the search Radar because of the interference from the more powerful radars on the warships in the bay. This stopped the missile being fire at its maximum range.


The last problem was that most of the Argentine Aircraft were targeting the warships, and presented crossing targets to the Rapier, which it wasn`t really designed to take on.


The Government white paper after the war credit it with 14 kills, but I think its pretty much accepted it only score 1 confirmed kill.

Last edited by whiteladder; 05-20-2019 at 02:34 PM.
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