Introducing the VKB-Sim Gunfighter

To not answer emails is not good business practice!

To not answer emails is not good business practice!

Can't really pin that on VKB themselves; that's down the each web shop owner. I realize we all conduct business differently, and I am a stout advocate of good communications, but VKB has no influence on the individuals that run their stores.

There's a modern jet style metal grip planned, however, no ETA. There will be a spacesim style grip (left/right handed versions) out before that, and a non-metal modern jet grip as well.

Was sometime ago anoucment that VKB will bring the Gunfighter KG12 Stick in a Plastic and later on in metal Grip configuration still planed? However i am bad Space Simer :music_whistling:

[…] I am a stout advocate of good communications, but VKB has no influence on the individuals that run their stores.

Yay to that! :thumbup:

I also think good communication is key when it comes to web-based medias (before you get your hands on the good stuff).

The first contact you have with a purchase is what info you can get and I remember it's been really painful to even find how to buy a Black Mamba when I first got wind of VKB.

Fortunately VKB is getting more efficient about the communication. It's a very specific set of skills and, most of all, it requires increasingly consuming availability.

So, kudos for your work here, rrohde!

We can't die from too much info anyway :D

However i am bad Space Simer :music_whistling:

Afaik the metal KG-12 is still on the to-do-list and the prototype has already been tested. But it has a lower priority as there's significant demand for space sim grips/controllers.

And just as you, I'd like more information about the "Kosmosima" (space-sim) grip.

I really hope it will include an analog ministick, aka thrusters control.

It would be a shame the only analog ministick would be the crappy one on the Saitek/former-MadCatz/Logitech X-56.

Analog mini sticks are better placed on the throttle.

Z...

For what I get in Il-2.ru forum VKB is not fan of use "mini-stick" due they low durability.

Can't really pin that on VKB themselves; that's down the each web shop owner. I realize we all conduct business differently, and I am a stout advocate of good communications, but VKB has no influence on the individuals that run their stores.

To make it clear: that was not directed at VKB but at FSC. Of course it should be in VKB's interest to uphold their distributors to certain standards.

An opportunity to create a mini gimbal system with magnetic sensors - probably tricky, and perhaps bulky, but if they get it right, they would dominate the market.

Z...

Of course it should be in VKB's interest to uphold their distributors to certain standards.

Agreed!

For what I get in Il-2.ru forum VKB is not fan of use "mini-stick" due they low durability.

Unless a reliable solution would raise the price to something much less reasonable.

Who would pay something like a hundred bucks more just to get an analog ministick on the grip? :music_whistling:

Example of Russian analog mini-sticks (military market):

КУ-С (KU-S)

Авиаавтоматика

Su-35 / PAK FA grip

ДН-10М (DN-10M)

Su-2x

For a good one? You bet.

Z...

Unless a reliable solution would raise the price to something much less reasonable.

Who would pay something like a hundred bucks more just to get an analog ministick on the grip? :music_whistling:

 

Example of Russian analog mini-sticks (military market):

КУ-С (KU-S)

Авиаавтоматика

Su-35 / PAK FA grip

 

ДН-10М (DN-10M)

Su-2x

For a good one? You bet.

 

Z...

I'm glad to see there is this kind of enthusiasm for this... I've been toying with the idea for a while since the technology if readily available to make this happen but was unsure if the effort would be worth it, but it sounds like there's an actual demand for this.

I'm glad to see there is this kind of enthusiasm for this... I've been toying with the idea for a while since the technology if readily available to make this happen but was unsure if the effort would be worth it, but it sounds like there's an actual demand for this.

I'd love to be able to even retrofit one in an existing throttle.

Though, I do play space games (Elite, perhaps other stuff as they come online).

Z...

I've been toying with the idea for a while since the technology if readily available to make this happen but was unsure if the effort would be worth it, but it sounds like there's an actual demand for this.

Problem is that cheap load cell suitable for make a "force sense" device is too big to fit inside a joy or throttle body.

Are that "IBM" mouse for laptop (bad memory with then in Tm F-22PRO) but work in serial protocol, with require additional circuits.

Maybe that PS3 mini-stick with HALL sensor... that require amplifier signal...

Botton line: No cheap option for this, and joy manufacturers will not use expensive solutions.

For example, HALL sensor or similar is considered "luxury" for Tm TWCS throttle main axis, so is used cheap pot, rated to 10.000 cycles.

Problem is that cheap load cell suitable for make a "force sense" device is too big to fit inside a joy or throttle body.

 

Are that "IBM" mouse for laptop (bad memory with then in Tm F-22PRO) but work in serial protocol, with require additional circuits.

 

Maybe that PS3 mini-stick with HALL sensor... that require amplifier signal...

 

Botton line: No cheap option for this, and joy manufacturers will not use expensive solutions.

 

For example, HALL sensor or similar is considered "luxury" for Tm TWCS throttle main axis, so is used cheap pot, rated to 10.000 cycles.

Hence why I think that someone like VKB, BRD, or Virpil could possibly produce one, and make a nice profit margin. Especially if it can be fitted as an "option" to a throttle that is produced in greater quantity.

Clearly there is a market for high end gear, I mean, look at the prices a lot of us are happy to pay for rudder pedals.

For a properly good throttle, build to the standards of BRD, Slaw, MFG etc... The sort of thing that would probably outlast the player themselves... I'd be willing to pay my hard earned, with a smile.

Z...

I'd be willing to pay my hard earned, with a smile.

Definitely-absolutely-invariably the same here. I'd pay good money for a reliable grip and especially a throttle (I'm currently using a Saitek X-55 throttle… if you catch my drift - I know something about non-reliable).

I'm pretty sure many flight sim enthusiasts value their time and flying experience and would want reliability and efficiency. Flying is like kung fu in the air: everything has to be perfect.

But of course choices should depend on the available budget or the wife/girlfriend/boyfriend spanking power :D

For cheap solutions, Thrusmaster got us covered with the FCS/TWCS.

Now, bring the real stuff.

Please.

Well I suggest you guys contact this manufactures and ask for this solution for then.

For what I get, VKB is most influenced be their local market players, and overall they want "game" solutions, not expensive ones. :)

I think Kreml is the right guy to do this kind of device:

http://www.letiaga.ru/

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=143234

pro looks very good but the grip is not sufficent for modern fighters imo.

Getting a bit OT here but APEM makes thumb and finger sticks for joysticks that'd be perfect. They aren't cheap, ~$80 for a single unit of mouser. A bulk order would lower it a bit. Check them out: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/26/APEM-TS-ThumbControls-595214.pdf

http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?Apem%2FTS-6A1S02A%2F&qs=%2FyPOVIzmEE1HH3gCpxqOgg%3D%3D

Getting a bit OT here but APEM makes thumb and finger sticks for joysticks that'd be perfect. They aren't cheap, ~$80 for a single unit of mouser. A bulk order would lower it a bit. Check them out: http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/26/APEM-TS-ThumbControls-595214.pdf

 

http://www.mouser.com/Search/m_ProductDetail.aspx?Apem%2FTS-6A1S02A%2F&qs=%2FyPOVIzmEE1HH3gCpxqOgg%3D%3D

They make nice mini joysticks that are close, but not perfect for this. They are too big to mount in any existing hardware without significant surgery. My goal is to make an equivalent performing unit, but in the proper form factor. CMS socket on a Warthog is 20mm, and I'm using that as my initial target dimension. If I can shrink it to 17.5 for their 4-ways after that, all the better.

APEM units are made for 25mm socket and have a 29mm flange, and also stick up too high (~20mm above flange, but the low pro is ok at 14mm but an ugly hat) to be mounted the way a normal 4 or 5-way would be. Any one of the compromises would be iffy, but all of them together make it a moot point for me and what I want to use them for and what I think would be well recieved, that being relatively easy drop-in mod for grips that use self-contained 4 and 5-ways (Warthog, Cougar, VirPil, VKB?, my own grip projects etc)

pro looks very good but the grip is not sufficent for modern fighters imo.

Buy Gunfighter PRO without grip (save 40$) and use a Cougar, Warthog or Cobra M5 grip, "modern fighters" (and Kosmosimov) problem solved. ;)

Getting a bit OT here but APEM makes thumb and finger sticks for joysticks that'd be perfect. They aren't cheap, ~$80

But since the guys want this for replace in TMW, this throttle don't support additional analog axis, and that APEM thumbstick don't work in their IC5(?) protocol, so is need add a electronic interface cost and consider the necessary adaptations in throttle body... Will be not a "PnP" solution. :D

They make nice mini joysticks that are close, but not perfect for this. They are too big to mount in any existing hardware without significant surgery. My goal is to make an equivalent performing unit, but in the proper form factor. CMS socket on a Warthog is 20mm, and I'm using that as my initial target dimension. If I can shrink it to 17.5 for their 4-ways after that, all the better.

 

APEM units are made for 25mm socket and have a 29mm flange, and also stick up too high (~20mm above flange, but the low pro is ok at 14mm but an ugly hat) to be mounted the way a normal 4 or 5-way would be. Any one of the compromises would be iffy, but all of them together make it a moot point for me and what I want to use them for and what I think would be well recieved, that being relatively easy drop-in mod for grips that use self-contained 4 and 5-ways (Warthog, Cougar, VirPil, VKB?, my own grip projects etc)

Maybe we should start a new thread to discuss this. OTTO males great components as well but the smallest OD is 23.5mm. You could open the hole up a bit with a ream.

There's also these adafruit mini sticks. Certainly not the same caliber as APEM or OTTO but it's dirt cheap and under

https://www.adafruit.com/products/44420mm OD. https://www.adafruit.com/product/2765

Awesome.... But a dead stick.. No FFB :(

Awesome.... But a dead stick.. No FFB :(

Unfortunately FFB sticks seem to be dead. As Sokol and others pointed out, it's too difficult and costly to implement.