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Enjoying learning on the FC3 planes, but I feel I'm not getting the whole experience and find myself drawn more and more to the harrier of even the pending F14. My question is are the clickable cockpit models more enjoyable or am I going to struggle with limited experience. I know I'm nowhere near ready jumping into the multi player experience. I actually find the HOTAs binding for all of the controls quite daunting and often pause the sim to check up on the position of a switch, where as I think a clickable pit will be easier in a number of way-not to mention the visual references, plus keeping the binding to a minimum

Thoughts suggestions please

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It takes a while to get used to all the controls. Pausing and looking for the controls is normal, we all do this at first. The full fidelity modules like Harrier/A10/Hornet has a LOT more stuff going on than the FC3 planes. It is worth it though. There's a lot more things to do and learn in these modules.

 

The harrier is not complete yet, its systems (IRL) are not quite as slick as the Hornet or A10 so it's a bit more confusing to use than those planes. Can't say much about the F-14 besides piloting should be relatively simple and RIO will be more involved.

 

Choosing a full fidelity module depends on what you'd like to do in DCS so I can't tell you which is recommended, I'd say Hornet, if it was complete, because it will be able to perform at most tasks available in DCS and will provide lots of things to learn. However, it is not yet complete so limited in a lot of ways.

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It takes a while to get used to all the controls. Pausing and looking for the controls is normal, we all do this at first. The full fidelity modules like Harrier/A10/Hornet has a LOT more stuff going on than the FC3 planes. It is worth it though. There's a lot more things to do and learn in these modules.

 

The harrier is not complete yet, its systems (IRL) are not quite as slick as the Hornet or A10 so it's a bit more confusing to use than those planes. Can't say much about the F-14 besides piloting should be relatively simple and RIO will be more involved.

 

Choosing a full fidelity module depends on what you'd like to do in DCS so I can't tell you which is recommended, I'd say Hornet, if it was complete, because it will be able to perform at most tasks available in DCS and will provide lots of things to learn. However, it is not yet complete so limited in a lot of ways.

 

Thanks for your reply I find the su25t and the a10a fun but fells like they are missing something ( im okay in both ) but have my moments

I cant help but feel that the visual references in a clickable pit would benefit me over having all of the controls on a HOTAS, which I think is where my problem is

I don't want to jump straight into the f14 or maybe I should wait and learn that cockpit, without learning another first and confusing my self

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It is a very steep learning curve but see if you can find a group willing to help you out.

 

I'd definitely say get an aircraft with a full clickable cockpit as i find it easier to click a button than try to remember a keystroke. Plus it really adds immersion into the game.

 

Have you tried Chucks Guides? They are kinda the "For Dummies" guides and really make things like what to set on your joystick that much easier.

 

Chucks Guides for DCS

 

Good luck

 

:pilotfly:

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The truth is, the clickable cockpits have a lot more stuff going on. For instance, in the A10A/Su25T you don't need to worry about things like arming your bombs, aligning your INS, setting your countermeasure programs, enabling countermeasures, entering target coordinates, cooling down your maverick seekers, choosing which hardpoints are enabled etc. So while you don't have to remember button presses as much for some things, in a full fidelity module you have the usual button presses to remember (slewing your target pod, shkval, chaff/flare, fire button, pickle button etc) you also have a lot of other things to do in order to make the plane work. The FC3 planes are super simplified in terms of how much work you have to do and how much setup is needed to deploy ordinance. For instance:

 

in the A10C in order to shoot a maverick:

 

Prepare Mavericks (needs to be enabled at least 3 minutes before use so they can spin up gyros, cool seeker or whatever)

Select HUD as sensor of interest (SOI)

Choose CCRP mode

Select Maverick as weapon

Select a MFD as SOI

Go to MAV page on MFD

Slew maverick onto target

Master Arm to ON.

Fire

 

So while this is not very complicated compared to the A10A you can see there's a few more steps involved compared to the A10A where you press 7 for A2G, Press D a few times to select maverick, Slew onto target and Fire.

 

For releasing dumb bombs you need to arm them, select delivery mode etc. For laser guided you need to arm the fuse, select delivery mode, select auto/manual laser mode, designate target on TGP, release bomb, enable laser (if manual) etc. The TGP also needs to warm up and you need to select AA/AG mode, select contrast mode etc. The same is true for most full fidelity aircraft. You do the same things in the end but there's more to be done before you can complete your mission.

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For instance:

 

in the A10C in order to shoot a maverick:

 

Prepare Mavericks (needs to be enabled at least 3 minutes before use so they can spin up gyros, cool seeker or whatever)

Select HUD as sensor of interest (SOI)

Choose CCRP mode

Select Maverick as weapon

Select a MFD as SOI

Go to MAV page on MFD

Slew maverick onto target

Master Arm to ON.

Fire

 

 

Prepare Mavericks (Go to page hit Button with mouse)

Select HUD as sensor of interest (SOI) (HOTAS)

Choose CCRP mode (HOTAS)

Select Maverick as weapon (HOTAS)

Select a MFD as SOI (HOTAS)

Go to MAV page on MFD (HOTAS)

Slew maverick onto target (HOTAS)

Master Arm to ON. (hit switch with mouse or bind to hotas)

Fire (HOTAS)

 

Fire Hands...;) A good full HOTAS really helps here big time and KNOW IT BACK TO FRONT without thinking... Takes time....

 

Not taking away what lemoen has said above, as there is "A LOT" in the a-10C if you want to really dig in and use the UFC and punch in coordinates etc.

 

But Clickable pit or not, I setup for war:D where a pilot would have that switch in easy access to his hand and not fumbling around with a mouse.

 

I setup my controls to have all the main controls on my HOTAS. For the F/A-18 I can lower the gear and select full flaps with a modifier button command on my throttle. Why? You don't have the time to do Case 1 and grab a mouse, able to hit "real switches" would be way easier to do.

 

The only real benefit of the clickable is doing "proper" startup, weapon configurations, radio's and autopilot options. If you really want this than the full clickable are good.

 

Example: Once the A-10C is up and running and weapons configured if needed, it's all controlled on the HOTAS and similar to FC3 as it's meant to be, there all built to put warheads on foreheads as efficiently and accurately as possible.

 

FC3 just cancels out those things and lets you get focused on the strategy side for multiplayer or single player.

 

In VR this is even more important as you cannot see, so I do have flaps as a modifier and can lower the gear all on the HOTAS. You still need the mouse for some things to get it all setup for "battle" in the clickable modules... You don't want to be fumbling around once in battle tho.;)


Edited by David OC

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Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library

Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link

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Yeah in the A10C its all on the HOTAS if you have enough buttons. But the point here isn't where the buttons are located, its just that you need to know 10+ keys to do the stuff (TMS U/D/L/R, DMS U/D/L/R, NWS for laser, etc.) i.e. the cockpit workload is higher compared to FC3. A lot higher in most cases. Well worth the effort though.

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You need time, will & patience.

 

Accept that there is no shortcut to master those full fidelity modules.

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;3709326']It is a very steep learning curve but see if you can find a group willing to help you out.

 

I'd definitely say get an aircraft with a full clickable cockpit as i find it easier to click a button than try to remember a keystroke. Plus it really adds immersion into the game.

 

Have you tried Chucks Guides? They are kinda the "For Dummies" guides and really make things like what to set on your joystick that much easier.

 

Chucks Guides for DCS

 

Good luck

 

:pilotfly:

great thanks

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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I made a cheat sheet on graph or grid paper . On one side i mapped my HOTAS controls (most flight and all combat operations except OSB's) and on the other i listed the needed keyboard commands for startup , etc .

Just making the cheat helped with memorization , and after 3-4 weeks (i'm old and slow) it became entirely superfluous . I also find it helpful to setup bomb fusing , delivery mode , ripple etc while on the ground .

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I know I'm nowhere near ready jumping into the multi player experience.

 

 

Just to point it out as already mentioned above, you will enjoy learning in multiplayer if you search for a loose group of pilots or a full squadron that can answer questions in a multiplayer session.

 

 

usualy you learn 10 times faster with someone on your wing, and you also will profit from other vPilots experiance while doing so.

 

 

Bottom line is, i highly recommend going multiplayer with a helpfull group of pilots to have a better and usualy faster learning experiance.

 

 

regards and happy learning,

RR

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

"There's nothing to be gained by second guessing yourself.

You can't remake the past, so look ahead... or risk being left behind."

 

Noli Timere Messorem

"No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always been there first, and is waiting for it."

Terry Pratchett

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I definitely agree with others that you can learn things quite quickly flying with others in multiplayer. However, I also recommend a certain level of private study and obtaining a certain level of proficiency before multiplayer. Multiplayer is not the best place to learn from the ground up, but can be a great resource for questions, practice, fine tuning, and discovery.

 

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As they say there are tricks to the trade so once you learn to learn the learning itself is less of a pain. Also check my signature.

 

Older planes tend to be much more simple than the newer ones so it's faster to learn and have fun in them. Mig-15 F-5 L-39ZA Huey Gazelle all are great picks and you can get them going very fast compared to advanced platforms like A-10C or F-18 where you're shifting through radar modes, sensor modes, targeting modes, navigation modes... Ultimately up to you what you define as fun and how to spend your time.

 

I would recommend the full experience eventually... sitting in the pit and manually starting can be a great immersive experience esp. when you do it in multiplayer.

 

Also some of the advanced avionics are really there to help you carry out the mission, not to introduce game balance between the hornet and the migs...

SA-342 Ka-50 Mi-8 AJS-37 F-18 M2000C AV-8B-N/A Mig-15bis CA --- How to learn DCS

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I would recommend the Hornet as a first purchase of a study level air craft. While it is as complex as the Harrier or the A-10c it over all feels far more user friendly than the other two mentioned. at 10=15 hours in the Hornet I was doing case 3 Carrier recoveries. At 30-40 hours in the a-10c I am still very awkward at using this thing as a weapon. Of the 3 I mentioned The Hornet is simply less frustrating. Though take it with a grain of salt as this is a matter of opinion and I may find the a-10c harder to use due to the fact that I do not have a HOTAS that can map even half of the essentials to.

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I have the majority of modules. I would recommend the A10C for Ground Attack! Like the last post said it’s a comprehensive beast to learn, but after you master it is the most effective at taking out a large force before re-arming. I fly Cessna 172 for fun in RL. The A10C is the only one I think I could safely take off and be able to land without blowing up in RL. Treat it gentle and it reacts as you want it to in the sim. The trickiest to master are actually ones like the spitfire! It has no radar or advance weapons, but see if you can land without scraping your wings! It’s quite easy to start and graceful when in the air, but take off and landing is challenging!

 

I have P3d just for the Cessna 172 preflight practice, however DCS feels more real to practice the actual flying!

 

Would say if you want modern:

 

A10C - Ground attack

FA-18c - All rounder

 

Or

 

WW2

 

P51 easier

Spitfire more challenging!

 

 

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On clickable cockpit is great, that you literally start siming with starting the aircraft, setting systems, radios, navigation. I love that equally as flying. I so far played mostly gen 2 and lower A/C with full fidelity, so in flight I dont find much of a workload. Ok Viggen is probably gen 3 and its more complicated. I would recommend to start from gen 1 if you already love the game and know its just for you :-)

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I am newbie here too. Flew the F51 that comes w/ the world. Was looking around while the sale was on and grabbed the A10C. WOW, I can take off, fly around and land OK, but still haven't figured out how to fire the gun. Watched a tutorial on the armament and didn't even know what half of the terminology meant. So thought I'd drop back to a WW2 plane since they are much simpler. Saw a neat module for the Spitfire where you can follow a campaign via a real Spitfire pilot. But you need maybe 3 modules to make that all work. So I thought I'd just fly the plane and decide later if I wanted to do the rest of it. That Spitfire is the worst sim plane I have ever flown. Dang near impossible to get off the ground and the 3 times I got it in the air I crashed on landing. Yesterday I was determined to be able to fly it so I went through the tutorial and spent 2.5 hours trying. Pretty much the same results. Also the instruments, especially airspeed, are terrible. I don't know how close you are expected to sit to the dash but I had to program two easily reachable key board keys to zoom in and out. Went back to the F51 and immediately took off and landed. I did break the landing gear a couple of times but my success rate is about 80%. Oh, and I can read the gauges too. BTW, I am a newbie here but flew all the Microsoft flying SIMs back in the day. About 6 months ago I got back into sim flying w/ XPlane 11. No expert there but I can fly the 737 and use it's autopilot and I can land the FA18 on the carrier w/ maybe 85% success. I will be doing both XP and DCS because there are things I like in both.

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As another FNG, I used to play LOMAC years ago, so when I got back to DCS it was sort-of familiar I bought FC3 just so I would have big plane set. I played FC3 for a bit and then I bought my first "real" clicky plane. Holy cow what a difference, I actually feel like I'm operating a real aircraft, hell even just flying around is alot more fun in the clicky planes. Plus I find the flight models "better", or worring about things like making sure the fuel is getting burned from the right tanks etc.

 

From the standpoint of learning curve it is definitely steep, I'd recommend getting a more simpler more developed plane so you don't have to deal with bugs and changing feature sets. If NATO jets are your thing, I'd say the F5 is a pretty good basic plane to get started on. Or as others have said the F86/Mig15. I'd stay away from the prop planes as they are much harder to actually fly and land. You can try out the free T51, but its super easy compared to the Bf109K4, and from the sound of it the Spit.

 

I'll also second the recommendations to make cheat sheets, and read chucks guides/keep them handy, I print them and seperate them by section (startup), (TO), (landing) NAV (AA, AG etc). Also, for most planes there is an "auto start" cheat if going through procedures isn't your thing.

 

Realize that you will spend some amount of time just figuring how to fly and land the plane first, then figure out the NAV system, and then the AA and AG weapons employment. You can definitely skip around some, I usually learn NAV last. I'm currently flying the harrier but according to the logbook I've got 6 virutal hours on it and I say probably 80% of that time is trying to either land it on a deck or trying to refuel it (still can't). I can operate some of the simpler weapons and I'm learning NAV and comm now. But given that its the harrier I'm also having to make my own training scenarios since it doesn't come with a full set yet. The more modern and complicated weapons are also a PITA to learn, the Mavericks on the Harriers are "finicky" from the doing it all right standpoint, one wrong button press and you need to basically start over.

 

All that being said, I haven't flown a single FC3 plane since I got started on the "real" planes.


Edited by Harlikwin

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Anyone thinking about or just getting into the ww2 aircraft. You might want to take a look at the very cool Essay's by Chief Instructor in the Spitfire section.

 

Essay 1 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179253

 

Essay 2 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179314

 

Essay 3 https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=179455

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Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library

Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link

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My opinion on this is: undecided

 

Before I buy a plane I always want nothing but full modelling because I am going to fly nothing but this one plane for the rest of the year and learn every single switch mkay?! But then after day 2 the reality is different. After 2 years I can just barely start and fly simple planes like the Mig 15 or Yak 52 because of all the different settings that have to be observed (it's always nice when for example my cannons won't fire in the MiG and such). ((Figuring out how to fire missiles in a combat environment is an ongoing thing for me for 15 years since LOMAC came out and I still can't do it but I got very close lately)

 

So to answer your restion as best as I can: I would check if you are really using (at least your favorite) FC3 plane to the maximum. If yes, then you need to get into clickable planes. If not, you will not benefit greatly from the clickable cockpit. At the same time it is never a bad thing to have it, even if it can be a bit harder the advantageous more than make up for it.

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Enjoying learning on the FC3 planes, but I feel I'm not getting the whole experience and find myself drawn more and more to the harrier of even the pending F14. My question is are the clickable cockpit models more enjoyable or am I going to struggle with limited experience. I know I'm nowhere near ready jumping into the multi player experience. I actually find the HOTAs binding for all of the controls quite daunting and often pause the sim to check up on the position of a switch, where as I think a clickable pit will be easier in a number of way-not to mention the visual references, plus keeping the binding to a minimum

Thoughts suggestions please

 

 

 

 

 

Welcome aboard man.

 

 

My answer might not be helping but i can simply answer, all depends of your degrees of what you like. I personaly fly the sim, cuz it's a way of doing what real life didn't allowed me to do. So not-clickable cockpits for me is absolutely a no go, i simply go for most completed models. Trying to get things closer to the real thing rather than a early 90's video game.

 

 

As per switch positions etc, yes with time it'll all comes by reflexes, like driving a car, at the begining, i remember, i was looking at the gear shifter, the radios buttons, after a while all goes by brain memory muscle and not looking at them in anyways, specialy on the HOTAS for this case, and sad thing is, there is so many bindings, if you fly many aircrafts also with different bindings, and if you're after a while out of the sim, it's a bit of relearning them when you come back (my case now). :) It's like any games, the few hours of moments are a pain cuz you can't remember what button does what on the gamepad.

 

 

As title said, it's a learning curve, but all depends of your patience and how you like flying sim, as for exemple, i love flying sims and so not too much into car sims, and i just got Dirt Rally, i have so not the patience to learn all the mechanics for tuning cars setups and learning behaviors of cars systems mechanics, but in DCS, i'll have all the patience to read, watch videos, learn my fav aircrafts systems, procedures, ordonance setups, configs etc...

 

 

 

 

If you like it, give yourself the time, enjoy each progression and yes, some stuff can be frustrating and long learning curves, not to mention all, but one common, Air Refueling, knowing where all the swtiches are and refueling at the same time... Lots of stuff requires lots of practice, with time all gets memory muscle (god knows how i hated VR HMD when i first got it, being able to click stuff, keyboard etc while being blind, but yah, no coffee spiled), good thing is, we are most, virtual pilots, our life or job doesn't rely on it, and we can go our own pace.

 

 

 

 

On a last word, i can tell you, we all being there i am sure, but this little icon/emoji i end up with, will come more than often on your mind as you learn stuff around. :)

 

 

 

----» :joystick: «-----

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have fun man

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I find that I use keyboard keys for some stuff. For me my right hand is on the stick, left hand can hit all it's buttons, and also keyboard buttons. Flying a 737 in another sim it's easy to use the mouse since everything happens so slowly. Here in the P51, I find it difficult to use the mouse to move switches because right hand is on stick and no way I can use my left hand to run a mouse. A thing I also find strange is that when I hit pause, a lot of the clickable cockpit stuff doesn't function. But at least, I can find it while paused, and then click the mouse a second after un-pausing. BTW, I have one of the small tape label makers and all my stick buttons and several keyboard buttons are now labeled. Wife asked why there is an 'L' on the 8 key. Heck, I have to put Left aileron trim somewhere.


Edited by CBStu
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I find that I use keyboard keys for some stuff. For me my right hand is on the stick, left hand can hit all it's buttons, and also keyboard buttons. Flying a 737 in another sim it's easy to use the mouse since everything happens so slowly. Here in the P51, I find it difficult to use the mouse to move switches because right hand is on stick and no way I can use my left hand to run a mouse. A thing I also find strange is that when I hit pause, a lot of the clickable cockpit stuff doesn't function. But at least, I can find it while paused, and then click the mouse a second after un-pausing. BTW, I have one of the small tape label makers and all my stick buttons and several keyboard buttons are now labeled. Wife asked why there is an 'L' on the 8 key. Heck, I have to put Left aileron trim somewhere.

 

Active pause (LShift + LWin + Pause)

 

sorry for asking, but is the active pause supposed to let the rest of the world around go on like nothing ever happened while only you plane is hovering in mid-air? Seems kind of creepy, I can still launch missiles and drop bombs, and my confused wingman doesn't know what to do. Just making sure.

:D

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Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library

Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link

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I figured out the active pause. On the top left of the controls setting page is button for which profile you want to use. So you can do different settings for different planes. The default is 'General'. I never looked any further until today. If you click on the little arrow to the right of the word 'General' you get a drop down menu w/ two profiles for each of your planes. IE; a P51 Sim and a P51 Game. Which of these you choose determines the list of possible controls. In my case, the 'General' profile did not have a 'Pause Active' in the list. But 'P51 Sim' does have it. So, easy to set a single key to activate it. I am also starting to understand how to use the views. I always had trouble getting back to a centered forward view after looking around. Num5 does that just great. Overall this DCS world is super capable. Reminds me of trying to use Photoshop. So capable but also so dang difficult to get working. DCS, OTOH, promises some really great sim flying as I learn.

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