Crosswind Landings

After I became somewhat competent landing the P-51D in calm conditions, I began trying to make crosswind landings without breaking the airplane. Made a simple mission landing at Nellis RW 5 with 3 m/s crosswind from 330. Out of about 50 attempts, I have succeeded about 10 times. Normally right after touchdown the airplane veers uncontrollably to the right and departs the runway crashing into the Nevada desert. This occurs even when I appear to have a good 3 point touchdown with good alignment. I have tried stick back pressure and neutralizing the stick with no difference in the result. Can anyone enlighten me on what I may be doing wrong?

its been a while that i tested them in dcs...and i havent tested it in nevada...but they should still work pretty good...ailerons into the wind, rudder to keep alligned with the runway. once on ground, keep your controls where they are, dont let them go. and use your brakes to stay on the runway.

back then i tested how far i can push my limits...i stopped at 30m/s crosswinds from 90° to the runway.

EDIT: ah i noticed i even made two pointers in the dora in crosswind-conditions:

ok...tested it in Nevada...unfortunately there seems to be something seriously wrong with rudder or how the wind affects the aircraft. even with very low wind levels you can hardly do crosswind landings with real world techniques it seems.

actually you have to do the complete opposite of what you would do in real life and push the rudder into the wind to get crosswind landings done it seems.

tested it with the 109 and the P-51 now a couple of times...

rudder authority seems weird as well...hardly any yaw noticeable, almost only secondary roll effect. so i think, you can stop practicing them in nevada, and hope they will adjust whats needed to get more realstic behaviour.

Ahhhh. And I thought I just sucked. It seems in Nevada, no matter what, the aircraft makes hard right turn regardless of control inputs.

ok...tested it in Nevada...unfortunately there seems to be something seriously wrong with rudder or how the wind affects the aircraft. even with very low wind levels you can hardly do crosswind landings with real world techniques it seems.

actually you have to do the complete opposite of what you would do in real life and push the rudder into the wind to get crosswind landings done it seems.

tested it with the 109 and the P-51 now a couple of times...

 

rudder authority seems weird as well...hardly any yaw noticeable, almost only secondary roll effect. so i think, you can stop practicing them in nevada, and hope they will adjust whats needed to get more realstic behaviour.

I strongly believe it is somehow related to density and the way it's being taken into account in the FDM.

I gave away my Nevada module, but I recall having experienced some really weird behaviour there...

After I became somewhat competent landing the P-51D in calm conditions, I began trying to make crosswind landings without breaking the airplane. Made a simple mission landing at Nellis RW 5 with 3 m/s crosswind from 330. Out of about 50 attempts, I have succeeded about 10 times. Normally right after touchdown the airplane veers uncontrollably to the right and departs the runway crashing into the Nevada desert. This occurs even when I appear to have a good 3 point touchdown with good alignment. I have tried stick back pressure and neutralizing the stick with no difference in the result. Can anyone enlighten me on what I may be doing wrong?

Try starting the flaps up just before or on landing. The decrease in lift will plant the plane firmly on the runway. Also, try the "wing low" approach, in which the nose is kept straight with rudder and aeliron is used to keep the plane from drifting off the runway center line. The low wing is into the wind. Keep "flying" the plane until you stop. You could also make the crab or wing low approach with less flap. Nothing says you must use full flaps for every landing situation.

In high winds, and on the ground and taxing, remember where the wind is coming from and use the controls to keep a wing from catching the wind and flipping you over.

its been a while that i tested them in dcs...and i havent tested it in nevada...but they should still work pretty good...ailerons into the wind, rudder to keep alligned with the runway. once on ground, keep your controls where they are, dont let them go. and use your brakes to stay on the runway.

back then i tested how far i can push my limits...i stopped at 30m/s crosswinds from 90° to the runway.

Eeep, that probably works in DCS but would likely destroy your gear in real life ... *soo* much side loading :-)

You'd normally crab in (as you have), but then transition to a slip just before landing (wing down into the wind, opposite rudder) to avoid destroying the gear. You end up landing with your wings not level (windward wheel touches first), but it's much safer :-)

You'd normally crab in (as you have), but then transition to a slip just before landing (wing down into the wind, opposite rudder) to avoid destroying the gear. You end up landing with your wings not level (windward wheel touches first), but it's much safer

"Destroying the gear" is surely an overstatement. I prefer your method (slip touch), which is indeed healthier for the gear, but there are plenty of real pilots who prefer the rougher method (crab touch). I've seen too many airliners touchdown still in the crab. Do I think it's poor form? Yep! Does it destroy the gear? Not in the usual sense. It does accelerate metal fatigue, increasing chances of an eventual collapse (after years or decades of such abuse). But I wouldn't worry about the gear collapsing just from a few such landings.

As I understand it modern airliners are often required to land somewhat crabbed because they can only land somewhat slipped before they risk scraping an engine. As such the gear of modern airliners are strengthened to deal with side loading. However everything I've read on taildragger landings tells you above everything else avoid landing with side loading. The gear are not designed for it and can easily be damaged and the risk of ground looping is very high with side loads. If anything I would have thought this was especially true of war birds. That said this is all received opinion, I'm not a pilot, and it is possible the risks are somewhat overstated.

"Destroying the gear" is surely an overstatement. I prefer your method (slip touch), which is indeed healthier for the gear, but there are plenty of real pilots who prefer the rougher method (crab touch). I've seen too many airliners touchdown still in the crab. Do I think it's poor form? Yep! Does it destroy the gear? Not in the usual sense. It does accelerate metal fatigue, increasing chances of an eventual collapse (after years or decades of such abuse). But I wouldn't worry about the gear collapsing just from a few such landings.

Not to mention, IRL if you land while even slightly crabbing in a GA aircraft, you better be quick on pedals as once aircraft is set on ground no matter how strong winds are your wheels will make you run to the direction they are pointing at, so countryside usually… and I know about it, I have tried myself :lol:. That's a bit different in simulator.

S!

Eeep, that probably works in DCS but would likely destroy your gear in real life ... *soo* much side loading :-)

 

You'd normally crab in (as you have), but then transition to a slip just before landing (wing down into the wind, opposite rudder) to avoid destroying the gear. You end up landing with your wings not level (windward wheel touches first), but it's much safer :-)

i`m used to make crosswind landings in real life...maybe i didnt express myself well enough, but also in real life, you naturally keep the ailerons into the wind even after touch down...thats what i meant with dont let them go. i didnt mean to touch down in a crab attitude, although there's nothing wrong with that either as long as its not too pronounced.

^ Horrible landings ^

^ Horrible landings ^

But OMG!...entertaining!

^ Horrible landings ^

Interesting !

Given the crab angle before touchdown, it seemed to me not noticeably worse than you'd see from commercial pilots on youtube...

not noticeably worse than you'd see from commercial pilots on youtube...

Yup. And if you really want to see extreme crab angles and wing / engine strikes, check out heavies landing at the old (now closed) Kai Tak International (VHHH). Crazy stuff!

They all looked great to me, and I think that IRL one of those aircraft would rarely land under such x-wind components ( ? ) and even less takeoff...

Actually I find that turbulence settings are still tame in DCS. I read somewhere they used to be mnore effective but users complained, and then they were tunned down - a pittty :-/

What about those promissed mountain effects ?

but users complained, and then they were tunned down

Link or it didn't happen. Because I don't actually believe ED gives in to pressures like that.

Link or it didn't happen. Because I don't actually believe ED gives in to pressures like that.

Can't provide one, I'm sorry... It was long ago, probably two years ago, when I noticed I used to be able to watch in some youtubes the blades of the Ka-50 waving under turbulent wind while parked at the gate of one of the airfields, and commented on the rather tame turbulence effects modeled in DCS.

I know meteorology is not it's main focus, and they even tried to make a dynamic weather system which is great!

Someone replied to my post telling that indeed it used to be more intense, but users had complained...

Not a physics person but rather just an inner feeling thing so.....

I think that alot of the weird behaviors of FM's come from the lack of a really good tire model.What I am talking about that I feel is missing is Self aligning torque. When you are crabbing a plane and the wheel hits the ground the aligning torque will try to straighten the tire in direction of travel....aka down runway.There seems to be none of this modeled.

Another area is when you are taking off centered on runway and by the time you take off you are on the side of the runway.Its as if the tires are not gripping the ground and rather just slipping across the runway even though they track straight ahead.

Hey Habu_69

Threw together a quick video for you, sorry its a little sloppy production wise. But in anycase hope it helps.

Rush

twitch.com/aerosimgaming

Tx for tips. I did not realize P-51D lack of rudder authority was widely acknowledged.

Keep power on.

Backstick and aeleron into the wind

Lots of counter-rudder.

I will keep working on it.