Greasing up the Warthog

Hey guys I just received the lubricant today, I bought one ounce and its plenty. I did have an issue opening the joystick.

The magnet while removing the ball joint socket came off, luckily I didn't bend or break the plastic rods that hold the magnet in place.

I added a small amount of rubber cement, so hopefully it wont come apart again. I added a pretty generous amount of grease and I have plenty for future use.

The grease works insanely well, the stock grease was actually turning from the red gooey to more of a dark brownish putty in some places.

I'm pretty happy with the results and I thank who ever found out about it. Here are some pictures I took while applying the new grease.

Thanks for the tips. I followed the advice and generously greased the parts. The result is trully great. Well worth doing.

Having tried this greasing up procedure twice now, I just wanted to come back and emphasize how important it is to get grease into the innards of the ball & cup joint. On my first attempt, I didn't want to try removing the cup and instead just (carefully) pulled it upward as far as it would go and greased around it. This greasing did help, but still I could feel quite a bit of stiction that eventually annoyed me enough to prompt a second try: this time, I removed the entire cup assembly and inner piece, cleaned and greased everything, and MAN, what a difference. SO much better than the first attempt.

Bottom line -- grease that ball & cup joint! It may be a pain to remove -- the little 'pins' that keep the ball assembly together did indeed take quite a bit of force to push out, and I'd recommend that others try Corrigan's method above to using a screwdriver to tap them out rather than through raw force (also with a screwdriver) like I did -- but the difference in stiction is well worth it.

One final note: for those wanting to try this, note that in Corrigan's pics above, he disassembled more than is strictly necessary ... I did not detach the circuit board nor the ball assembly from the base. So in some sense it doesn't have to be as involved as his pics indicate, if you're uncomfortable with disassembly.

An updates from the guys who have regreased? Still working well? Any need to regrease again?

Tempted to do it my self..

Thx

I've done the grease mod with EML-30, and smoothness lasts about several months. It was never not completely smooth though.

Recently, I got a a hold of Nyogel 767A (expensive, $25 a tube), a dampening grease. The consistency is very very sticky and highly viscous. It feels the same kind of stuff they use for Saitek's rudder dampening knob.

After applying, the stick is absolutely smooth now with no hint of stiction. There is also the added bonus of dampening resistance.

I've done the grease mod with EML-30, and smoothness lasts about several months. It was never not completely smooth though.

 

Recently, I got a a hold of Nyogel 767A (expensive, $25 a tube), a dampening grease. The consistency is very very sticky and highly viscous. It feels the same kind of stuff they use for Saitek's rudder dampening knob.

 

After applying, the stick is absolutely smooth now with no hint of stiction. There is also the added bonus of dampening resistance.

Thanks for the feedback.

Why the Nyogel 767A in particular?

It's the only dampening grease that I could find. 767A seems to be the heaviest version they have and most readily available to purchase in small quantities.

I was originally looking for something to fix the dampening that had gone out on my Saitek's rudders after years of abuse...

Correction: actually 774VH is the heaviest version.

you guys might try this stuff as well. Works fine for me.

thx thietze, for your How To.

I'm considering lubing up my warthog and I've got a potentially dumb question about your excellent howto.

It regards the small ball inside the base side of the cup-and-ball joint. Why must it be removed? From my limited perspective looking at these pictures it seems that access to the two surfaces to which the lube must be applied can be gained without removing those two plugs or the centre wire-routing ball.

What have I missed?

Thanks,

tjhowse.

@tjhowse: you're right it is probably nor the most important part, but still it is one of the moving parts and the two pins holding it there should be cleaned and re-greased.

I got my grease in the mail today. Disassembled everything and noticed a pretty bad design choice. That wire routing ball is held in by those pins, but it must rotate when the stick is moved left or right. The pins rub against the ball as it turns. I lubed up the outside of the pins and the corresponding holes in the centre ball, then lubed up everything else and reassembled.

Applying a small amount of tension to the colourful ribbon cable when socketing the cup over the ball is essential to avoid any more pinching than is necessary. The pinching problem occurs when the black earth wire is trapped underneath the ribbon. Tension ensures that the ribbon and earth wire sit side by side and slide in with only a small amount of force.

It's super nice now. There's the slighest hint of stiction, but I think that might be from too much lube. When the excess works its way to the centre or outside it should go away. If it doesn't, I'm going to give the outsides of the bottom half of the pins a *light* sand to make them fit a bit more freely. That centre ball seems to be there for the sole purpose of guiding those cables, so it being a smidgen looser should have no effect whatsoever on the performance of the stick.

So here's my rough guide for lubing the hog:

Disclaimer: I'm not a Thrustmaster employee; this isn't official advice. However I am a mechatronic engineer and I have written this procedure following my successful operation.

You need:

Phillips head screw driver.

3mm allen key or similar.

Grease. I used Molykote EM-30L. Important attributes are a high viscosity and being plastic and metal safe.

Lots of tissues.

Ear cleaners.

The knowledge that if you damage anything in this process, you'll void your warranty.

Disassemble and clean everything:

Unplug.

Remove the stick.

Four screws on bottom, remove base.

Eight screws on top, remove metal ring, unclip plastic ring underneath.

Undo the four screws by gradually loosening in an even pattern, alternating sides. Don't take them off one by one as the big spring will force the top plate up at an angle.

Remove the top plate.

Remove the black plastic outer cowl.

Remove the big spring and clean off the grease with a tissue. I tried shifting the grease with isopropyl alcohol and ethanol, neither had an effect. A surfactant might work better, but I didn't want to try that for fear of water damage.

Lift the ring off the joint and posts. Clean, including inside the holes through which the posts passed. Use ear cleaners for this.

Remove the springs from the four posts and clean the posts and springs.

Flip upside down and unplug the two small ribbon cables from the PCB.

Undo the two screws holding the beige centre piece in place, through which one of the ribbon cables passes. Remove the center piece. This has the 2D hall effect sensor on it.

Optional steps to make things much easier and safer, but potentially voiding your warranty:

Undo the two screws holding the earth rings under the base. Put the screws back in after unhooking the rings.

Unsolder the black earth wire from the PCB.

Look inside the centre hole and note the orientation of the ribbon and back earth wire. Note they must be adjacent, not overlapping, to minimise the risk of damage. If they are overlapping, apply gentle tension to the ribbon cable and wiggle it into position.

Applying gentle tension to the ribbon cable, pull up on the cup portion of the joint, whilst allowing the ribbon cable to follow it out.

If you did the optional step, you'll now be able to entirely separate the ball and cup. If not, draw the cup out as far as you can.

Use an allen key or similar tool to apply force to the insides of the pins indicated by OP. Pop them both out. This will require an uncomfortable amount of force. Be sure not to pinch the wires with the allen key. Remove the inner ball. Note the orientation of the notch on the underside of the inner ball. This notch must correspond with the direction from which the wires emerge from the stem in the centre of the cup.

Clean everything: the inside of the cup, the inside and outside of the ball, including inside the peg holes, and the inner ball.

Grease and reassemble everything:

Grease the insides of the peg holes of the inner ball.

Grease the stems of the pegs.

Insert the inner ball into the ball, making sure the notch is on the correct side.

Slide the pegs through the holes in the ball into the inner ball, ensuring the small key on the peg aligns with the keyed slot on the ball. Lock the pegs in place. Ensure the inner ball can move freely. It won't be super smooth, but this is not very important (see previous post).

Apply a generous amount of grease to the inside of the cup and the outside of the ball. I suggest a 1mm layer all over both. The excess will work its way out the bottom and into the centre. Better too much than too little.

If you followed the optional step, thread the black earth wire and ribbon cable through the inner ball and out of the centre of the base. Ensure the wires emerge from the centre stem on the same side as the notch in the inner ball.

Apply gentle tension to the black earth wire and ribbon cable to ensure they are properly seated alongside each-other as they emerge from the centre stem. Slide the cup down over the ball. Any resistance you feel is the wires being squeezed through the hole in the top of the inner ball until they pop into the notch. DO NOT APPLY TOO MUCH FORCE. It should not be a struggle to get it on. You may wish to apply a small amount of grease to the wires to aid this step.

Insert and secure the beige centre piece into the bottom of the base, ensuring the wires to the ball joint routes neatly through the gap.

Grease the four posts.

Put the four springs onto the posts.

Grease the insides of the four holes in the ring using the ear cleaners, and the outside of the base of the ring, where it touches the big spring.

Seat the ring over the cup and onto the four posts. It will require a bit of jiggling to seat properly. Do not apply force, it should slip on nicely once the correct position is found.

Put the big spring onto the ring.

Put the cowl over the big spring, noting the pegs in the top and bottom and their corresponding holes in the base and top plate.

Push the thick metal plate down onto the spring, compressing it such that you can align the pegs and holes, then get the four screws in.

Clip on the black plastic ring.

Use eight screws to reattach the metal ring.

Reattach the two ribbon cables onto the PCB in the base. Re-solder the earth wire. Unscrew the two screws and reattach the earth rings.

Attach the base.

Attach the stick.

Work the stick around to all extremes, back to neutral and back out again to the extremes. This will smear the grease around and work any excess out of the way.

And that's it! If anyone needs any clarifications, or has any questions, please let me know.

Thanks again for this wonderful thread... the magnet fell off my warthog and I had to send it in for repair. I could have done it myself but for a 450 dollar joystick I shouldn't have to. Well I finally got it back after 2 months (I'm at an overseas location atm) and the joystick does not register full range of motion and it has a ton of play in the yaw department and you can lift the stick up and down slightly. So i start pulling everything apart and they didn't put the little plastic pins in. WTF mate. So I can hopefully get the plastic pins from them so I can just install them myself... but this definitely leaves a bad taste in my mouth when it comes to TM... yes this is the first TM product I've ever owned so others may know better than me... Just maxes me angry.

I attempted this today and broke the earth wire coming out of the top of the ball socket. There is about 2 cm of the wire remaining at the top. :/

Everything still works, is this just a safety issue? Can i just unplug when not in use?

Everything still works, is this just a safety issue? Can i just unplug when not in use?

That wire provides an earth path for electrical charge from the metal of the handle of the joystick to the base, and then to the earth plane of your computer. Electrical charge can build up in an insulated piece of metal and discharge suddenly, causing damage or injury, hence that wire.

In this case, it's probably there to meet a regulatory electrical safety standard. If you cannot reattach it I would not concern yourself overmuch. If you wanted to be paranoid you could disconnect the stick from the base when not in use.

Now its dead :( new hardware found comes up in windows but thats it. Nothing in DCS, Windows, Game controllers. I have no idea what happened. Must have bumped one of the circuit boards?

Now its dead :( new hardware found comes up in windows but thats it. Nothing in DCS, Windows, Game controllers. I have no idea what happened. Must have bumped one of the circuit boards?

Does it appear in Device Manager, under Human Interface Devices, with "bulk" in the name?

If so, try Thrustmaster's bootloader method. But before doing it- uninstall ALL drivers and devices related to the stick and throttle (through device manager and uninstall programs). TARGET and the updaters should be OK without uninstalling them.

http://ts.thrustmaster.com/faqs/eng/thr_eng_00140.pdf

Uninstalling the drivers first, was what made this method work for me. Without reinstalling them nothing worked.

I tried those steps and it appears under 'bulk joystick' in device manager (but the throttle doesn't appear). But only the throttle appears in game controllers. I tried firmware update (both joystick and throttle appear in the list) but it gives the message "ERROR: time-out device should had arrived in HID (Code:0x34100002)

I tried those steps and it appears under 'bulk joystick' in device manager (but the throttle doesn't appear). But only the throttle appears in game controllers. I tried firmware update (both joystick and throttle appear in the list) but it gives the message "ERROR: time-out device should had arrived in HID (Code:0x34100002)

Exactly my issues, throttle all good, stick "bulk". Only uninstalling the devices and drivers first, then going through the firmware update, unbricked it all for me. TM support had me do the bootloader method, but without uninstalling first- this method did not work at all.

Mentioning the uninstall step to the TM support guy yielded no response. Maybe they're looking into it to improve the instructions, maybe it was just a specific issue with my set up.

Exactly my issues, throttle all good, stick "bulk". Only uninstalling the devices and drivers first, then going through the firmware update, unbricked it all for me. TM support had me do the bootloader method, but without uninstalling first- this method did not work at all.

Mentioning the uninstall step to the TM support guy yielded no response. Maybe they're looking into it to improve the instructions, maybe it was just a specific issue with my set up.

Yep. I did all the uninstalling steps as well. Like rerunning the installer to uninstall. Hmm... guess i have to contact TM, I'm well out of warranty

Repeated those steps on a laptop, same result.

I had a bad feeling from the start.

Damn glad you got it fixed, I think I've learned or learning that when i get that feeling not to do whatever it is am thinking about as it normally go's wrong but am very impulsive and don't always think things out.

Glad it ended well tho! :thumbup:

I eventually had more problems even after it came back fixed. I gave up and just bought the FSSB R3 force sensing mod for the stick. Now the stick doesn't move more than a few millimeters in each direction. No having to worry about movement anymore.

Turns out it was the DIM connector pushed down in the socket. While rescuing it I broke a few wires... Talking to thrustmaster about it

Turns out it was the DIM connector pushed down in the socket. While rescuing it I broke a few wires... Talking to thrustmaster about it

These kinds of things are why, as much as I want to grease mine, I am waiting until I acquire a second Warthog to do it.

I just done mine it was easy didn't break any wires and as its still in warranty thought i'd give it a go just incase i nerf it up its still covered sort of.

Just pull GENTLY the cup which is over the ball socket thingy watch those wires make sure theres a little slack.

You can get it up enough to just wipe around the inside using a largeish cotton bud that'll clearout the old grease to a degree.

To grease it back up i used Dye slick lube from my paintball days this lube is good its not conductive and non corrosive to plastic also non exposive around highly compressed air not that theres any of that in the WH stick.

The only reason i did this was because i was taking out the big spring as it seems since the introduction of Heuy i felt like i was constantly fighting the spring along with getting cramp trying hard to hold on to it.

Now its like poetry in motion landings are even smoother than before.