MI-8 Magnificent Eight, Flight Dynamics Questions

Hi,

I'm starting this thread in order to discuss some of the problems which already involved the Huey, and which are still unfixed..., problems which seem to translate to MI-8 as well! I didn't even need to buy the product to realize, that not even in terms of flight dynamics, it doesn't worth it...!

1. After just trying to watch a promo of the MI-8..., at second 0:30 of the video, i saw something that didn't seem quite realistic to me and many other pilots, who saw it! The helicopter jumped into the air on a constant slope, without inertia, like if a small dynamite blew underneath it!

2. When the MI-8 was constantly descending towards the ground..., it "hit" the same amount of ground effect at 1:18, that the Huey is also encountering in the current beta!

Why is the inertia so low and why is that ground effect persisting to be so strong for the MI-8, in the same manner that goes with Huey? The ground effect seems like a copy-paste from huey to MI-8!

I haven't seen the DCS's KA-50 product (since BS1 until now) look so bad in terms of inertia and ground effect as i see the Belsimtek's products to be doing! From my opinion, these aren't yet at DCS standards and need some attention!

Here's the unpromising promo:

Man, seriously ...

I thought if you were the kind of person noticing suuch subtile things, you would also notice at 00:30', it's an AI Mi-8 taking off !

And AI Aircrafts always have a " on rails " behavior, that isn't new...

For your second problem, it isn't, real good pilots ( as the guy who flew for the video is probably a real Mi 8 pilot ), know what anticipation is, and he definitely known that he has to increase collective a bit, and so right pedal at the correct moment to stop the descent, with the help of the ground effect also ...

Good pilots don't mean everything is too easy or unrealistic, it only means that 80% of you are ( sorry to say that ) only good for making holes in the ground ... But the main subject is to be happy, so if everyone is happy with that, that's nice ;-)

1. It seems to me an AI helicopter. So far from what I watch in DCS, AI has a different behavior.

2. It is expectable to find some ground effect.

By referring to inertia, you are talking about the weight feeling... That depends of the weight that the machine has. Don't expect the same behavior at MTOW or at almost BEW.

I guess I understand what you are saying about inertia, don't know if I agree with you regarding the Huey. Have you ever seen a Huey taking off in an alert fire fighting mission? Those takeoff are really fast, and it makes you feel that the Huey is extremely maneuverable and agile.

Lets see what is coming up.

I also thing that you make some affirmations that are really made lightly, like saying you don't have to buy the product to know that it's not worth it.

When you say you and many other pilots, do you have real life flying experience, if so, what did you fly? Merely curiosity.

The helo taking off in the vid seems to be AI, maybe that's why it looks strange?

The Mi-8 in the game has a considerably bigger inertia than the Huey. It slows down and accelerates more slowly, and it also ins't cushioned so much by ground effect. However, it also has a lot of power, so you can take off quite dynamically.

Note that I only managed to put less than an hour into it so far, so it's only my first impressions. I haven't done any serious tests.

Have you flown the Mi-8? You haven't mentioned if you did. If not, aren't you overreacting a bit by flooding the comments with whines how bad the game is, based solely on the trailer?

And here we go again with the supposed "specialists" whining about the slightest little nuances. :doh:

Hi,

 

 

I'm starting this thread in order to discuss some of the problems which already involved the Huey, and which are still unfixed..., problems which seem to translate to MI-8 as well! I didn't even need to buy the product to realize, that not even in terms of flight dynamics, it doesn't worth it...!

another I haven't tried it but, it's real bad I cant even fly it cause It wont work. Wow buy then be a critic lol. :joystick::music_whistling:

Given that one of the lead team members of Belsimtek flew an Mi-8MTV2 for many years, I don't think it would've been released if it was as "bad" as you describe... it's a few hours into release, and a beta. Not everything will be perfect.

Given that one of the lead team members of Belsimtek flew an Mi-8MTV2 for many years, I don't think it would've been released if it was as "bad" as you describe... it's a few hours into release, and a beta. Not everything will be perfect.

Leaving aside whether he has faith or not in the DEVS - he's commenting on the flight model, but he hasn't actually flown it before commenting, only watched the AI takeoff & someone else fly in a video, and yet is so confident of his ability to make judgements from that video, that he didn't start a thread called " Bad Flight Dynamics ?", he started one called " Bad Flight Dynamics! "

Why is the inertia so low and why is that ground effect persisting to be so strong for the MI-8, in the same manner that goes with Huey? The ground effect seems like a copy-paste from huey to MI-8!

May be it is the same planet and air that is compressed and modeling the ground effect? Why should the "ground effect" for a Mi-8 be that different? It uses more power and compress the air harder and likely earlier...

Make a simple experiment: Take a piece of wood 1m x 1m and let it fall/glide to a flat concrete ground trying to keep it parallel to the ground. It will produce a cushion off compressed air beneath and slow down (ok, it will dirft and hit with a corner first, but you will see the effect).

Now try the same with a metal plate of 1m x 1m, which is considerably heavier... same effect! :smartass:

Sudden jumped into air is a problem in the promo video. That may confuse the buyers think of if the mi-8 air dynamic not that close enough to the real. I can say promo video can hide something from our eyes, but how about a more realistic dynamic feeling(The inertia effect, i don't know what to call it.)? I hope the beta may have some solution to deal with it.

As others have pointed out, the unnatural-looking liftoff in the promo clip is an AI helicopter. AI helicopters in DCS still use AFM dynamics, but without nearly as much detail in the calculations as player-controlled aircraft. More importantly, AI behavior scripts are relatively simple and that is really what you're seeing in the video - less an issue of unnatural dynamics and more an issue of AI behavior scripting.

To be perfectly honest this promo clip was recorded quite a while ago and we would have liked to maybe dress it up a little more or record something more fresh, but everyone has just been taken up with other tasks as we got closer and closer to the open beta launch.

In regards to the flight dynamics in general, I will say that we are very confident in the model and its general completeness and correctness even in its current state, more so than we were with the Huey FM at open beta launch. If you think it's off in some places, please come with proof in hand. :)

Now that's a reply!

! I didn't even need to buy the product to realize, that not even in terms of flight dynamics, it doesn't worth it...!

 

God..whining about an early Beta Version of a Module is just ridiculous..:doh:

Whiners like this guy are a large reason why so many developers would rather work on the next Call of Duty knockoff than develop realistic flight sims...

Whiners like this guy are a large reason why so many developers would rather work on the next Call of Duty knockoff than develop realistic flight sims...

This argument is way overrated. Try to count how many of those successful knockoffs you know of.

I had to -rep OP for this. Even if it hadn't been AI in the video, he's jumped to conclusions on a beta product and the topic title is unnecessarily slanderous. Please think before you post.

Yesterday I've flown maybe one or two hours, and noticed the ground effect is lighter than in Huey (that is only my own humble impression) and at beginning I had problems with landing on obstacles and carrier, flying is much different, but I belive that this is accurate, because I'm not a MI8 pilot and I know that few real MI8 pilots worked with this release and put lots of energy to make it real.

I love it and can't wait to go back home and fly again! :pilotfly:

Don't worry guys, he knew he was absolutely wrong and ridiculous as soon as I told him it was an AI heli, on post N°2 ...

We are sorry!, :) but when mounted video in this story took off boat, not the player. But when landing - there no wrong.

See another video, there's all true!

at second 9:50 of the video

Thank you for the reply first of all! I've also seen that video as well, and indeed the video that i've referred to shown an AI taking off at 0:30 (i have less excuses for that)..., yet i still haven't seen a video where the MI-8 and also the Huey are descending vertically at a constant rate (below the occurring of a vortex ring state) and without modifying the collective control, will descend all the way until touching or not touching the ground (depends on the strength of the ground effect). That is what i'm trying to refer to when i mean that the ground effect seems just too strong (comparing to the KA-50 for example), of course taking into account the exact mass of the helicopter at that moment (which reflects into inertia).

I apologize for my probably exaggerated remarks, but i honestly didn't know the truth as i haven't tested the product yet...!

I wish you all a good day, and sorry for being impolite!

Don't worry guys, he knew he was absolutely wrong and ridiculous as soon as I told him it was an AI heli, on post N°2 ...

You are right..., i was ridiculous and too quick to answer what i saw, but..., the thing with the ground effect still gives me some debate..., i'll come with a video later regarding the Huey's behaviour which seems very similar to the MI-8's one! Now i hope i won't be making a mistake this time too..., but if i do, i'll come back and answer it!

Good day to all of you!;)

:)