Having a hard time with the radar

It boggles my mind that we have 2 folks with real life experience in this thread yet the internet experts keep yakking away.

 

I would recommend we pay attention to Alpha and Sinnerman49

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You must be new here ;-)

 

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Yeah, what he doesn't know is that the USN is busy coming out with REAL updates to the platform on a weekly basis, because they heed "THE NEED FOR SPEED" from these very same internet experts....just sayin'

You must be new here ;-)

 

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Nah, but it is the reason my post count is low.

I get it in the civilian aviation sim world as well. I've been a real airline and corporate pilot for 20+ years yet I get internet commandos telling me I'm wrong about airplanes I'm type rated in or NAS procedures I use everyday.

Hello guys, lots of good information out there on the radar. Keep it coming. I have watched Matt Wagner's video on firing the AIM-7 and I unable to move the parallel bars over the target blip like he does to achieve lock. I programed my stick to use the commands (Sensor control up, down, left, right) but it seems to be switching my radar modes instead. What am I doing wrong? Saw the thread title about having a hard time with the radar and took a chance the answer might be in here.

You don't use sensor control switch to slew the cursor. Sensor castle is on the stick. You use the throttle mini stick to control the TDC. In axis (maybe hotas?) section it's called something like "throttle designated cursor/controller".

Got it, Throttle Designator controller! Thank you. So I have a TM TQS. Is there a way to activate the Radar Cursor feature? I would rather use that if at possible. I have noticed that that my range knob and radar elevation are not being detected. Is there a thread you can point me to? Thanks again, got a good lock with the AIM-7.

9 pages later I begin to understand my Radar trouble ;)

Yeah, I thought, that can't be it, this has got to be one of the heavy WIP things.

But hey, while we wait for the radar, there are tons of things to explore.

Quick question: Will the TWS mode on the Hornet be able to target and engage multiple enemies like the F15 or will it be limited to a single target at a time?

the APG-63v0 (Mech scanned) will SOMETIMES lose lock on beaming targets, the look angle (up/down) doesn't really have much NOTICEABLE impact on it, unless the bandit is super low to the ground.

 

The V1 and V3 are much better at holding locks.

 

Getting into a perfect beam (with 0 Vc) is pretty difficult to do, and and closure positive or negative will help the radar.

 

The Medium Pulse Repetition Frequency (MPRF) does much better with maneuvering targets vs High PRF which is much better with hot/cold aspect targets that generate some Vc (And allow for Doppler range) - hence why these Radars will alternate HPRF and MPRF signals during a frame (Full bar count). This also explains why you could see a contact 1 second, and then it disappears on the next bar.

Thanks that's very interesting.:thumbup:

I'm aware for the difference between MPRF and HPRF, but I think that Fox 1 guidance is performed with HPRF, isn't it ?

Up to now in DCS:

- beam doesn't break lock in look up (the same in some other "serious" simulators :music_whistling:)

- HPRF perform poorly on cold target (detection range)

Thanks that's very interesting.:thumbup:

 

I'm aware for the difference between MPRF and HPRF, but I think that Fox 1 guidance is performed with HPRF, isn't it ?

 

Up to now in DCS:

- beam doesn't break lock in look up (the same in some other "serious" simulators :music_whistling:)

- HPRF perform poorly on cold target (detection range)

From my experience, beaming can break lock in look up situations, but beaming is less effective if the aircraft locking is below the target. Also range to target is a factor.

From my experience, beaming can break lock in look up situations, but beaming is less effective if the aircraft locking is below the target. Also range to target is a factor.

Ok, never happened to me* in look up. Will try to test further…

Sometimes the missile goes for chaffs on beaming target in look up (without breaking the radar) but most of the time missile stays on target.

The range that interest me is "missile range" :smilewink:

*only speaking about Fox 1 missiles in DCS

dont compare the lock time in acm mode with fc aircrafts or even other "full real modules" like the mirage, because it seems that the f18 radar is the only one simulating the up abd down movement while in vertical mode....so you have to wait until the antenna finds the target...and you cannot use the vertical mode for quick 60° scans while rolling the plane like in the other modules....the hornets locking mechanism is the most realistic one in dcs but this comes with disadvantages against all other planes...

There is multiple video's of real dogfights between f18 pilots, and boresight/vertical scan pickup the target instantly.

The f18 takes multiple seconds to pickup a target at just 4km infront while it is not maneuvering. If this is really how they intend for the f18 to be in alpha then how will we use it to compete multiplayer when it's so completely outperformed by all the other 4th gen fighters?

My reference:

I would urge the dev's to please look into making a version that can compete in multiplayer if they don't want to make acquisition time like it is in this youtube example.

In russian (translated)

не сравнивайте время блокировки в режиме acm с самолетами fc или даже с другими «полными реальными модулями», такими как мираж, потому что кажется, что радар f18 - единственный, который имитирует движение вверх и вниз по вертикали mode ... так что вам нужно подождать, пока антенна не найдет цель ... и вы не сможете использовать вертикальный режим для быстрого сканирования на 60 ° при прокатке плоскости, как в других модулях .... механизм блокировки шершней - это самый реалистичный в dcs, но это связано с недостатками против всех других самолетов ... [/ QUOTE]

 

Существует несколько видеороликов реальных воздушных боев между пилотами f18, а прицеливание / вертикальное сканирование - мгновенно.

 

F18 занимает несколько секунд, чтобы набрать цель на расстоянии всего 4 км, пока она не маневрирует. Если это действительно так, как они хотят, чтобы f18 был в альфе, то как мы будем использовать его, чтобы конкурировать в многопользовательской игре, когда он настолько превзошел всех остальных бойцов 4-го поколения?

 

Моя ссылка:

 

Я хотел бы призвать разработчиков к поиску версии, которая может конкурировать в многопользовательском режиме, если они не хотят делать время сбора, как в этом примере на YouTube.

Getting into a perfect beam (with 0 Vc) is pretty difficult to do, and and closure positive or negative will help the radar.

So this creates a couple of questions...

1. Does this apply to climbing as well as diving Ii.E. if a target is trying to notch you and you begin a climb or descent it should change your aspect angle and the relative closure rate...yes?

2. How does ground clutter impact this since the target is moving in relation to any background clutter?

Having a hard time with the radar

Your speed in the longitudinal direction from the enemie‘s radar has to be 0 (or atleast close to it) and not your closure velocity. So any flight path that will lead to a perpendicular flight vector in relation to the radar beam will „hide“ you from your enemy.

The problem with diving/climbing is that you will not be able to sustain a pure dive/climb very long.

You will not disappear from his radar if you match exactly his speed and therefore have a Vc of 0 relative to him (as far as i know).

Ground clutter was indeed a problem with the first gen radars. Pulse Doppler radars should be „look down/shoot down“ capable. They filter anything out that does not move.

To answer your question: Groundclutter should not be a problem for modern radars.

because it seems that the f18 radar is the only one simulating the up abd down movement while in vertical mode....

My memory might be wrong, but as I think has been shown in released WIP videos, in a debug mode the radar scan is visible, and from memory that's not the case.

It boggles my mind that we have 2 folks with real life experience in this thread yet the internet experts keep yakking away.

 

I would recommend we pay attention to Alpha and Sinnerman49

Seriously. Thanks to both of you gentlemen for the input. Good to hear the real radars don't have issues with gimbal rate.

Remember, Radar is still a WIP.

While it's a WIP constructive feedback is very welcome.

I don't know how the real radar works but I find the following odd:

1. Reduced azimuth pattern is nose-centered and doesn't follow cursor.

2. No range control in STT either automatic or manual. I expect some kind of top/bottom bump range change in search (F-16 or Mirage) and an automatic range display reduction in STT as target closes.

The digital antenna elevation controls are too fast. Fine control perhaps with a time-based acceleration would be nice. When you're trying to find a target with 1 or 2-bar scan even minimal taps can slew the elevation from totally below to totally above the altitudes you want. First I am scanning 0 to 20kft and with a tiny tap I'm scanning 40 to 99kft.

And AA/AG mode select are supposed to command DDI-R to AA radar and DDI-L to AG stores respectively? I think that isn't happening but guess that isn't really related to the radar itself.

@Fri13: Going to say it one more time here: There is a false perception of real radar here!

 

Talking RWS:

The real radar DOES NOT drop a STT locked target due to your maneuvering until reaching gimbal limits. You can roll and pitch all the way you want - the (real) radar will track just fine.

 

Also the real radar doesn´t "want to reaquire a lock via looking at the old position". If the contact is lost the radar will revert to the search pattern used before.

 

In real life you hardly ever see something at 20-30km - and if it hasn´t been on the scope before you really screwed up you radar work.

 

There is so much stuff wrong here: Are you talking TWS or RWS? RWS doesn´t predict anything at all - it just displays current radar returns (not going into detail on latent TWS as that´s not implemented currently). If you lock a target up in RWS that´s happening really quickly in real life - see bug section.

 

Once again: Don´t pretend the current radar would be "more realistic" due to it dropping contacts and stuff -it´s not. The real APG-65 is WAY more capable than what the current build here in DCS offers.

And yes - I did work with the real APG-65 in a real aircraft.

Seriously. Thanks to both of you gentlemen for the input. Good to hear the real radars don't have issues with gimbal rate.

Thank's to Alpha and Sinnerman49

I don't know how the real radar works but I find the following odd:

1. Reduced azimuth pattern is nose-centered and doesn't follow cursor.

2. No range control in STT either automatic or manual. I expect some kind of top/bottom bump range change in search (F-16 or Mirage) and an automatic range display reduction in STT as target closes.

 

The digital antenna elevation controls are too fast. Fine control perhaps with a time-based acceleration would be nice. When you're trying to find a target with 1 or 2-bar scan even minimal taps can slew the elevation from totally below to totally above the altitudes you want. First I am scanning 0 to 20kft and with a tiny tap I'm scanning 40 to 99kft.

 

And AA/AG mode select are supposed to command DDI-R to AA radar and DDI-L to AG stores respectively? I think that isn't happening but guess that isn't really related to the radar itself.

1. I believe it can be adjusted in TWS, but its positioning is limited if you have a L&S designation. If your gonna narrow your search, mine as well switch to TWS.. That being said, you also get Spotlight search in RWS. Its just not implemented yet.

2. IRL, STT has automatic range adjustment. It can also be manually adjusted, but it'll no longer adjust automatically once you manually change it during a lock.

1. I believe it can be adjusted in TWS, but its positioning is limited if you have a L&S designation. If your gonna narrow your search, mine as well switch to TWS.. That being said, you also get Spotlight search in RWS. Its just not implemented yet.

 

2. IRL, STT has automatic range adjustment. It can also be manually adjusted, but it'll no longer adjust automatically once you manually change it during a lock.

Is TWS implemented, yet?

nope

Hornet radar has been working a lot more reliably for me during the past two weeks. Only real issue that seems to remain is it'll sometimes get "stuck" and won't scan. Usually if set to 160 deg scan area.

Anyone else having issues with getting the radar to change between Hi, Low, Hi Intl, and Med Intl? I haven't had much time to fly lately, but I've noticed that sometimes I can cycle the modes just find...other times I can't cycle anything and it just goes to DPI (?) when I click the OSB?

Anyone else having issues with getting the radar to change between Hi, Low, Hi Intl, and Med Intl? I haven't had much time to fly lately, but I've noticed that sometimes I can cycle the modes just find...other times I can't cycle anything and it just goes to DPI (?) when I click the OSB?

It seems to do that whenever you've got the AIM-7 selected - I have no idea why, or what it means (it's actually PDI I believe), but I noticed if I had no weapon selected, or the AIM-120/AIM-9 then it worked as expected, but with the AIM-7 selected it just changed to PDI and got stuck.