Fight for Honor - A Folds of Honor Charity Event

 

 

 

 

Fight for Honor - A Folds of Honor Charity Event



POWERED BY BLACKHOG, EAGLE DYNAMICS, TACVIEW, AND FOXX MOUNT, AND POINTCTRL

 

 

 



 

 

 

SIGN-UP STATUS: CLOSED

SCHEDULE

The schedule of matches will be available at the DCS World Events Fights for Honorwebsite.. All matches on the schedule will be shown in Zulu time. To check what Zulu time is for you, see here.

DISCORD

It is very important that all participants join the DCS World Events Discord. This discord will be used to convey future information, scheduling, and rules for all combatants as well as provide a place for general conversation about the event. If you do not currently have discord go ahead and head here to download and get it installed.

WHAT IS FIGHT FOR HONOR

Fight for Honor is a DCS 1v1 BFM 100% charity event for the Folds of Honor charity. We will be joined by special guest throughout the live stream events. Fight for Honor provides educational scholarships to the children and spouses of our fallen and disabled service members while serving our nation. More information on who Folds of Honor as and what their mission is can be seen here.

STREAMING

All streams will be taking place on the DCSWorldEvents Twitch channel with after action replays and highlights available on Youtube.

PRIZES

*First Place Team: 1v1 Fight with Falco (AI from the AlphaDogfight Trials)* + Tacview Advanced License + BlackHog BExplorer Button Box + Eagle Dynamic Module of Choice + FoxxMount Desk Mounts + PointCTRL - A Virtual Reality Control Device Setup

*Second Place Team: Tacview Advanced License + Eagle Dynamic Module of Choice + FoxxMount Desk Mounts

*Third Place Team: Tacview Advanced License + Eagle Dynamic Module of Choice

*In order to dogfight Falco you must have XPlane11 as that is the platform Falco is coded to fight in.

TIMETABLE

- September 26th and 27th, 2020 - Fight for Honor kicks off with opening rounds taking place. No streams will take place the 26th as event smoothness is our topmost concern and with so many combatants priority will be given to ensuring everyone has a top notch experience. Streams for the 27th are TBD.

- October 3rd and 4th, 2020 - Mid and final rounds for Fight for Honor kick in. This weekend will be streamed in its entirety.

- Tournament brackets will depend on the number of teams at signup.

- Groupings will also depend on the number of teams.

- Participants should expect to possibly fly multiple times a day depending on the number of signups.

- All matches will be streamed and track-able on DCSWorldEvents.

- Future DCS modules will be included in the tournament automatically.

RULES*

- Map used for all matches will be Caucuses.

- Mission location on the Caucuses over the Anapa airfield. Same as 2019.

- Aircraft Allowed: Any official DCS World module is allowed to compete though fuel amounts and weights have been changed in an attempt to give each aircraft a similar amount of flight time in full burner.

- Matches will consist of 3 rounds in a best of 3 scenario. If a tie occurs more rounds will be flown in a sudden death style until a winner can be determined.

- Round Setups will consist of players starting 4 miles, line abreast at 15,000ft maintaining the same heading with an airspeed of 400 knots.

- Turn in for initial merge will be coordinated between the advisories via Discord voice comms.

- Turn in should be done at or as close to 15000ft as possible. Off angle is allowed as long as you maintain a hot aspect to your opponent with your nose having no more than 30 degrees of deviation from their aircraft's nose.

- No head on shots prior to the first 3/9 passage.

- Use of the landing flaps exploit on the F14 Tomcat is banned. Pilots found to be exploiting this bug will be disqualified.

- Participants win rounds by eliminating their adversary.

- You must land after eliminating your opponent at the airbase centered in the engagement area. This ensures that pilots do not eliminate their target and then immediately run out fuel. Failure to make it back to the airbase safely will result in a round draw.

- *G Limits for all aircraft are being imposed this year to remove or greatly reduce the opportunity people have to exploit. If a pilot is found to have gone over the G limit for their aircraft a round loss will be issued for that round for that pilot. G Limits for specific aircraft are as follows. If you do not see the aircraft you are flying assume that there is no G Limit.

F-16 9.5G

F/A-18 8.0G

Mirage 9.5

F-14 8G

F-15 9.5G

SU-27 9.5G

MiG-29 9.5G

A-10 7.33G

F-5 7.5G

MiG-21 9G

F-86 7.5G

MiG-15 6G

JF-17 8.5G

Harrier 8.5G

Viggen 7.5G

All Props 8.5G

*G limits for all aircraft consist of the main aircraft G limit and a .5 buffer. For example, the FA-18C Hornet has a G limit of 7.5. We have added a buffer of .5 to allow for inaccuracies in the sim and Tacview for a total G limit of 8 which can be seen above in the G limit list. Therefore it is heavily advised that you fly to the actual aircraft G limit and not the G limit + the buffer. Give yourself room or you may find your self disqualified.

WEAPON AND AIRCRAFT RESTRICTIONS (SUBJECT TO CHANGE)*

- All Aircraft are allowed for this competition.

- Guns are the only allowable weapons for all aircraft.

MISSION & WEATHER*

- Mission location will be on the Caucuses map.

- Specific mission location is TBD

- Weather will be clear, calm, cavok.

- Time of day will be 12, noon.

REGISTRATION**

Registration for the Fight for Honor tournament must be done at this link for Givergy. There is a $10 cost for registration. All proceeds will be going to the Folds of Honor Charity. After signing up for the event head over to the DCS World Events Discord for more to keep up-to-date on information, schedules, rules, and prizes.

Shared on discord community feed.

 

 

 

Good luck to all participants this year for this worthy charity.

 

 

 

Thanks

Appreciate that, BIGNEWY! Fold of Honor is a great charity for a great cause indeed.

Interesting idea with the G-limits. How is this going to be controlled in real-time and how is it going to be enforced, i.e. what happens if players over-g , Moltar?

Generally I like the approach, but I'm wondering how the practical implementation is going to look like and if it ends up being a paper-tiger rule, so to say.

Kind regards,

Snappy

Too bad I have work those days, would really like to participate, thanks for the last time, I can still taste the bitterness of the silver medal :)) Big thumbs up for the voice call for turn-in, a great solution for the classic problem (some people consider preparing the merge and making a lead turn unfair :) :) :) ) Not sure how the G limitation is enforced effectively though, with online desync confusing things even further... and whether it is reasonable to have in planes that break with over-G, anyway.

Interesting idea with the G-limits. How is this going to be controlled in real-time and how is it going to be enforced, i.e. what happens if players over-g , Moltar?

Generally I like the approach, but I'm wondering how the practical implementation is going to look like and if it ends up being a paper-tiger rule, so to say.

 

Kind regards,

 

Snappy

G limits are visible in Tacview using either acmi files or real-time telemetry.

Map has been updated to Caucuses over Anapa to be more inclusive.

Signed up. I don't fly online but I'll make an appearance for a charity tournament.

Signed up. I don't fly online but I'll make an appearance for a charity tournament.

Appreciate the dedication to the cause!

I just don't get the G-limits, the F14 is limited to its pretty harsh peace time 7G limit and yet its fully capable of pulling more and not only that its hard to control the g in that jet not only due to the location of the g meter but also just the handling of the jet. And in the case of the F15, iirc there was a case in the gulf war of a merge between an F15 and mig25 (29?) where the F15 as far as i'm aware did a 12g split S. Even in the FLCS jets its very possible in certain maneuvers or in particular hard jinks to go over the set g-limits even if you don't intend too. Like... I just want to dogfight not have to be constantly staring at the g-meter. You can't limit yourself based off of feel like irl. I was considering participating but the g-limits, no offset turns, and landing requirement are a major and total off put no interest after reading those.

Registered. My main mission is to have fun for a good cause and offer target practice for someone :)

BREAKING NEWS!!! CW Lemoine (Mover) just announced during an interview that the winner of Fight for Honor tournament will have the opportunity to 1v1 Falco; the AI from the Alpha Dogfight Trials! Think you can best the real fly boys? Now is your time to shine! Buckle up because things just got real! Interview can be seen here.

Map has been updated to Caucuses over Anapa to be more inclusive.

It still says Syria here though.

MISSION & WEATHER*

- Mission location will be on the Syria map.

It still says Syria here though.

Forgot to change that spot. It is caucuses.

I just don't get the G-limits, the F14 is limited to its pretty harsh peace time 7G limit and yet its fully capable of pulling more and not only that its hard to control the g in that jet not only due to the location of the g meter but also just the handling of the jet. And in the case of the F15, iirc there was a case in the gulf war of a merge between an F15 and mig25 (29?) where the F15 as far as i'm aware did a 12g split S. Even in the FLCS jets its very possible in certain maneuvers or in particular hard jinks to go over the set g-limits even if you don't intend too. Like... I just want to dogfight not have to be constantly staring at the g-meter. You can't limit yourself based off of feel like irl. I was considering participating but the g-limits, no offset turns, and landing requirement are a major and total off put no interest after reading those.

I absolutely agree with you, the limit must be when the plane break just like in real life. During a real fighting the skill of a pilot is to pull his plane to the limit and not looking at g-limit. I really don't understand the ratio, why not, for example, limit engines to military power?

And here is the link to the interview at Dale Snodgrass http://www.sponauer.com/snodgrass/

From a combat perspective, it was when I had a flameout over Iraq while executing a last ditch surface-to-air missile defense. I was leading a night

Fighter Sweep in support of an A-6 strike on a power plant on the north side of Baghdad. My flight had flushed a couple MiG-29’s and we were in

"Hot Pursuit." My ECM and radar warning gear had been lit up like a X-Mas tree, so I was vigilant in jinking in altitude and heading, while rolling and

visually checking for missile plumes. During one check, I saw a missile clearing the haze and undercast below us. We were 25-26 thousand feet at

the time and the undercast was broken around 13-15 thousand. Net result...not a lot of time to see and react to a Mach 4 missile. Fortunately I was

looking at the right piece of sky as the missile cleared the clouds. I immediately saw it had constant bearing and big time decreasing range. I

immediately rolled the Tomcat into the missile and pulled 8-10 G’s while deploying chaff to aid in breaking the missile's radar lock. The missile

exploded just above and behind me.

So a real pilot, an ace, in real life pulled f14 to 10g but, in a simulated tournament, people with f14 must keep eyes on g indicator to avoid to pass 7g. Please, forgive me but i think it is ridiculous.

It is ridiculous, I would like to know how is anyone (well except those with fancy JHMCS) going to keep it in check while looking somewhere above and behind at the other dude, when the accelerometer is located on the bottom right of the instrument panel, at least in our F-14B.

I'm sorry, but after reading the top post, I did not understand how such aircraft as the P-51 and modern jets are combined. Can anyone please clarify this situation? Is this not a classic 1x1 dueling competition? How are teams formed?

And here is the link to the interview at Dale Snodgrass http://www.sponauer.com/snodgrass/

 

 

From a combat perspective, it was when I had a flameout over Iraq while executing a last ditch surface-to-air missile defense. I was leading a night

Fighter Sweep in support of an A-6 strike on a power plant on the north side of Baghdad. My flight had flushed a couple MiG-29’s and we were in

"Hot Pursuit." My ECM and radar warning gear had been lit up like a X-Mas tree, so I was vigilant in jinking in altitude and heading, while rolling and

visually checking for missile plumes. During one check, I saw a missile clearing the haze and undercast below us. We were 25-26 thousand feet at

the time and the undercast was broken around 13-15 thousand. Net result...not a lot of time to see and react to a Mach 4 missile. Fortunately I was

looking at the right piece of sky as the missile cleared the clouds. I immediately saw it had constant bearing and big time decreasing range. I

immediately rolled the Tomcat into the missile and pulled 8-10 G’s while deploying chaff to aid in breaking the missile's radar lock. The missile

exploded just above and behind me.

 

 

So a real pilot, an ace, in real life pulled f14 to 10g but, in a simulated tournament, people with f14 must keep eyes on g indicator to avoid to pass 7g. Please, forgive me but i think it is ridiculous.

Snodgrass is not an Ace in real life. And over-g'ing an aircraft is not something to be bragging about. It's poor form. Not exactly an upstanding role model.

I absolutely agree with you, the limit must be when the plane break just like in real life. During a real fighting the skill of a pilot is to pull his plane to the limit and not looking at g-limit. I really don't understand the ratio, why not, for example, limit engines to military power?

That is false. But please, tell me about your experience in real life.

It is ridiculous, I would like to know how is anyone (well except those with fancy JHMCS) going to keep it in check while looking somewhere above and behind at the other dude, when the accelerometer is located on the bottom right of the instrument panel, at least in our F-14B.

Imagine that. Amazingly, I fought an F-22 with a T-38 Thursday. 400 knots, 60 degrees nose low, holding 5Gs looking inside and outside to insure I didn't over-G the jet because I don't even have a HUD, much less a fancy JHMCS.

If you can't handle looking inside the jet, pick one with a limiter (and don't reach for the paddle switch if you're in a Hornet).

You guys wanted realism.

We raised the Tomcat G-limit to 8.0 (7.5G + the 0.5G buffer all jets are getting) since that's the way Northrop started them out from the factory. 6.5G was a limit later in the Tomcat's life.

Challenge yourself to fly better. Remember, this is for charity.

Not sure if it matters, but the Tomcat was actually designed with the same ultimate load limit as the F-15.

So in terms of taking over G damage, that wouldn't happen to an F-14 before it would to an F-15.

As to wether RL tomcat pilots cared about exceeding the operational limit (6.5 Gs), my impression from reading a lot of accounts as well as speaking to a few former cat pilots is that in combat said limits went out the window.

If you can't handle looking inside the jet, pick one with a limiter (and don't reach for the paddle switch if you're in a Hornet).

 

You guys wanted realism.

So as far as my DCS testing as gone, the Hornet still pulls easily up to 8.2G on the HUD "max G" indicator.

Testing was at multiple altitudes and holding constant stick position, but high AoA with no paddle usage.

I think we do want realism, and from what we've heard about Hornets and the justification of an 8G limit is that the FCS is supposed to limit to 7.5G, but it doesn't in DCS.

Side question: Mover, are you really constantly watching G meter in BFM training? or rather focused on speed, AoA, alt, and bandit? How often are you looking at the G meter in the Hornet rather than just judging G's by how heavy your head feels?

So as far as my DCS testing as gone, the Hornet still pulls easily up to 8.2G on the HUD "max G" indicator.

 

Testing was at multiple altitudes and holding constant stick position, but high AoA with no paddle usage.

 

I think we do want realism, and from what we've heard about Hornets and the justification of an 8G limit is that the FCS is supposed to limit to 7.5G, but it doesn't in DCS.

The Hornet can overshoot the limiter in the transonic regime. Were you at 0.95 or greater?

You can pull up to 8.0 in the Hornet (Gonky says he's seen 8.3 I think). It's not an over-G without an 811.

Side question: Mover, are you really constantly watching G meter in BFM training? or rather focused on speed, AoA, alt, and bandit? How often are you looking at the G meter in the Hornet rather than just judging G's by how heavy your head feels?

The standard answer is - it depends. If I'm transonic or faster, you bet it's in my crosscheck. Slower where the Hornet likes to live, it doesn't matter.

In a T-38 that's now limited to 6.0Gs, it's constantly in my crosscheck and I have to look inside the jet to do it.

You can feel 4-5Gs by G-suit inflation. After that, it's a little hard to tell 6 vs 7 without looking.

Not sure if it matters, but the Tomcat was actually designed with the same ultimate load limit as the F-15.

 

So in terms of taking over G damage, that wouldn't happen to an F-14 before it would to an F-15.

 

As to wether RL tomcat pilots cared about exceeding the operational limit (6.5 Gs), my impression from reading a lot of accounts as well as speaking to a few former cat pilots is that in combat said limits went out the window.

An over-G downs the jet and requires a maintenance inspection. It can also damage the wings (this is from a Tomcat pilot I interviewed on the channel).

Last ditch against a SAM that surprised you? Sure, do what you have to do to survive.

BFM? Well, for starters, that doesn't really happen in the real world, but if it did, you're fighting well outside the E-M diagram if you're fast enough to be pulling 9-10Gs, and the jet won't be usable when you get home. You should never plan to break the jet because you flew poor BFM.

The biggest offender in DCS is the Hornet. Sim pilots seem to want to ride around with the paddle switch engaged. That's not even realistic in combat. No one trains to that.

The competition isn't just to see who can get a few fleeting gunshots and break their jet. If that were the case, we could just let you spear each other and see which fireball hits the ground last and call it a day.

The question posed is can you maneuver from a neutral position, win a fight without breaking your aircraft, and have enough fuel to safely land. That's the challenge.

And again, it's for charity. Winner will get to fight an AI and throw all of those rules out the window. But, before that, I want to make sure that the winner can actually walk the walk. Because the AI will not be a walk in the park. And the sim community has been very vocal that they could put forth a champion that could do better than Banger.

Now's your chance.

Snodgrass is not an Ace in real life. And over-g'ing an aircraft is not something to be bragging about. It's poor form. Not exactly an upstanding role model.

 

 

 

 

That is false. But please, tell me about your experience in real life.

 

 

 

Imagine that. Amazingly, I fought an F-22 with a T-38 Thursday. 400 knots, 60 degrees nose low, holding 5Gs looking inside and outside to insure I didn't over-G the jet because I don't even have a HUD, much less a fancy JHMCS.

 

If you can't handle looking inside the jet, pick one with a limiter (and don't reach for the paddle switch if you're in a Hornet).

 

You guys wanted realism.

Mover Snodgrass is an ace and also a living legend :

If you've researched information on the F-14, it is pretty likely that the name Dale Snodgrass has appeared somewhere in what you've read. "Snort" is virtual legend in the Tomcat community, and with more than 4,800 hours in the F-14, he is the most experienced Tomcat pilot in the world. Over a 26-year career in Naval Aviation, he had moved from being the first student pilot to trap an F-14 on a carrier to commanding the US Navy's entire fleet of Tomcats as the Commander of Fighter Wing Atlantic. Now retired, Snort is on the airshow circuit, flying a wide range of aircraft, from the F4U and P-51 to the F-86, MiG-15, and MiG-17.

The accolades for Snort's flying are long and distinguished.....twelve operational Fighter Squadron / Wing tours, including command of Fighter Squadron 33 during Desert Storm, the Navy's "Fighter Pilot of the Year" in 1985, Grumman Aerospace's "Topcat of the Year" for 1986, a US Navy Tomcat Flight Demonstration Pilot from 1985-1997, and numerous decorations for combat and peacetime flight.

http://www.sponauer.com/snodgrass/

https://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/the-real-top-gun-32185/?page=1

I don't know who are you but i trust what Snodgrass say. I'm sure that the experience in real life of Snodgrass is true and you are not the person who can tell that nodgrass is wrong about f14. I repeat that he is an ace and also a living legend.

About the question of G limit f14 has not g limit in real life and in real life the only limit is when the f14 breaks. So the g limit for f14 is only your limit and not a real limit, not to mention some iranian pilots who claim they pulled f14 past 10g. And in real life a real pilot don't need to look at the g indicator beacause he feels it with his body. I think you don't really know what is realism.