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Steam user’s vs longtime supporters… not fair!


Xanix

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So; if you buy the new DLC’s from Steam, you’re free from the “StarFRACK” thing.

Well, what about the people like me, that have bought from the DCS store? Why don’t we receive a key, to play the DLCs without “Starforce”?

 

During the years, I’ve bought:

*I’ll put aside the old ones…

DCS: FlamingCliffs 3

DCS:Combined Arms

DCS: BlackShark 2

DCS: A-10CWarthog

DCS:M-2000C

DCS: NEVADA Test and Training Range Map

Hawk T.1A for DCS World

DCS: UH-1H Huey

Shouldn’t I at least receive, a new key (Starforce Free) for Nevada and Mirage?

 

I’ve cleaned and reinstalled my system. Now it’s running Windows 10. I really don’t want that starforce virus infesting it…

 

Kind regards to all,

Xanix


Edited by Xanix
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Do you know that, starting with the steam release of M-2000, steam purchases are no longer compatible with stand alone version?

 

Yes, my friend I know that... I’ve already bought the “Mirage” and the “Nevada” DLC’s, from Eagle Dynamics. That’s the reason, I am asking why can’t I receive the steam’s version keys, for the products I’ve already bought "stand alone”? am I supposed to spent more money, and rebuy them again, just for steam?


Edited by Xanix
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Yes, my friend I know that... I’ve already bought the “Mirage” and the “Nevada” DLC’s, from Eagle Dynamics. That’s the reason, I am asking why can’t I receive the steam’s version keys, for the products I’ve already bought "stand alone”? am I supposed to spent more money, and rebuy them again, just for steam?

 

no, you are supossed to not buy dcs stuff from steam if you want to buy from ED store too.

 

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I'm aware of the bad reputation of Starforce, and I believe the original Starforce earned it, however DCS uses a newer version that is far less instrusive.

 

My first DCS module was Black Shark 1. I have most modules, and the only problems I ever had with the activation system were with the MiG-21, and these problems have since been sorted out by the devs.

 

As much as I hate DRM as such, I honestly can't say a bad thing about the way DCS makes use of it.

 

Feel free to complain all day long, but don't expect anyone to gift-wrap a bunch of keys to you just because you have a vaguely bad feeling about it.

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Yes, my friend I know that... I’ve already bought the “Mirage” and the “Nevada” DLC’s, from Eagle Dynamics. That’s the reason, I am asking why can’t I receive the steam’s version keys, for the products I’ve already bought "stand alone”? am I supposed to spent more money, and rebuy them again, just for steam?

Because you decided to buy a proprietary Steam Version for a different DRM system from Valve.

The same reason why you have to pay all your "Android-Apps" again, if you decide to switch to an iPhone!

 

Would you really ask Tim Cook to give you all the Apps for free, just because you already paid someone else for them?

 

It isn't ED that runs the Steam-Shop. Your complaints may be better addressed to Valve.

Shagrat

 

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I really don’t understand, why all of you send this massive “CAP flights”, against me.

 

I’ve been away from DCS Would for some time; “MBot” whit his dynamic campaign work, got me back.

Nevada theater with an F-15/A-10 dynamic campaign is just; Superb!!! Everything is more “alive” like on the Falcon 4 days; 1998 back again...

 

Well; let me try to explain my thoughts better:

  • Until now, if you’ve chosen to buy from DCS store, you received a “stand alone key” and a “steam key” all together...great.

  • From now on, if you buy from DCS you get a “stand alone key” only. If you buy from Steam you get a “steam key” only… fine by me.

My problem, is the current copy protection difference from standalone/steam

 

 

I bought (Nevada) and (Mirage) from DCS. I got a key and “Starforce” copy protection type included.

Vs.

If I have bought (Nevada) and (Mirage) from Steam, I would have received a key and “Steam” copy protection type. Starforce free! (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

From what I see, from now on, DCS World’s Steam users will have a better experience; free from "Starforce". “Denuvo” or what they call it, would be a better, non-intrusive solution…

 

 

 

Best regards to all,

Xanix


Edited by Xanix
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Could you be so kind to describe why your DCS experience is worst with Starforce Keys?

 

What problems are you running into?

 

Hardware damage, peak voltage burning your motherboard, sudden explosions of your SSD, artifacts on your screen, unauthorised violations of your credit cards ?

 

Something you can share with us?

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Until now, if you’ve chosen to buy from DCS store, you received a “stand alone key” and a “steam key” all together...great.

 

If I have bought (Nevada) and (Mirage) from Steam, I would have received a key and “Steam” copy protection type. Starforce free! (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

 

Wrong - If you buy a module from the ED store, you can't activate it on steam.

 

If you buy NTTR or the mirage on steam, you only get a steam key. But you can't use the steamkey with the standalone version.


Edited by Nirvi
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OP is unaware of this:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2085202#post2085202

 

This means there is no way for ED to merge your standalone keys on Steam. Keys purchased before that date should be able to be activated on Steam. Any further argueing about this is futile unless you have some way to convince Steam otherwise.

 

Starforce is the DRM you agreed to when you bought your standalone DCS modules. As you can see from the link a merge is no longer possible. Your objection to Starforce now, after years, is quite astounding. :) Nothing to add to Yurgons post there, he said it pretty well, my thoughts too.

 

Also keys bought from Steam with the M2000C and all newer modules moving forward, can not be activated on Standalone version anymore. http://i.imgur.com/p9bNMMJ.png?1 (can't find original source explaining the reasoning, but if I remember right it was indicated that steam misliked use of 3rd party DRM keys on their platform)

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Hello. Thank you very much, for all the explanations. I’m not here to argue or trying to create a problem, about copy protection types.

As I’ve already written, I’ve already bought (Nevada + Mirage) from the DCS store; for the standalone version.

On the standalone version, I need to add the key for activation, prior to use the add-ons. Use the add-on application for activate/deactivate it.

 

 

 

 

*What I really wanted to know:

Can someone tell me, if The Nevada + Mirage add-ons from Steam, have also starforce as activation or they’re simply added, to the DCS World game library folder? No activation/deactivation needed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you in advance and regards,

Xanix


Edited by Xanix
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They use a different (Steam) DRM that activates them over Steam - for the Steam account. No activations/uses etc.

 

And those (bought from Steam) can not be used on Standalone version (just repeating this for others who still don't know this, can't stress this enough^^)

 

Welcome back btw.

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Having to enter a serial number in star force takes far far less time than typing a post here, so I really can't see where you're going with this.

 

When you buy a module, activate it. When you need to update hardware, deactivate it, install hardware, activate it again. To take out all of 15 minutes to do that is hardly what I'd call a hardship when it helps to guarantee security for the vendors. If they get their cash we get more modules.

 

Just because Steam uses a different system doesn't mean you're missing out on anything, it is just different.

 

You just need to suck it up, and get on with it. Nothing will change.

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Hello. Thank you very much, for all the explanations. I’m not here to argue or trying to create a problem, about copy protection types.

As I’ve already written, I’ve already bought (Nevada + Mirage) from the DCS store; for the standalone version.

On the standalone version, I need to add the key for activation, prior to use the add-ons. Use the add-on application for activate/deactivate it.

 

 

 

 

*What I really wanted to know:

Can someone tell me, if The Nevada + Mirage add-ons from Steam, have also starforce as activation or they’re simply added, to the DCS World game library folder? No activation/deactivation needed?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you in advance and regards,

Xanix

It is very important to understand, that Valve (the company behind Steam) decided they no longer want "Eagle Dynamics" keys in their shop, one way or the other.

 

It is like the same App in the Android Playstore vs. in the Apple AppStore.

 

It's totally irrelevant if one or the other has a better feature.

If you switch from Android to iPhone or vice versa you have to buy all the Apps (Keys), again!

 

And it isn't something the developer can choose to do. It is the shop owner.

 

It is your decision if you want to buy from Steam, with Steams DRM, or from ED with their DRM... The problem after the recent change is, you cannot "mix", transfer, or merge Steam and ED keys/modules beginning with the Mirage.

 

Valve made a clear and decisive step.

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

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It is very important to understand, that Valve (the company behind Steam) decided they no longer want "Eagle Dynamics" keys in their shop, one way or the other.

 

It is like the same App in the Android Playstore vs. in the Apple AppStore.

 

It's totally irrelevant if one or the other has a better feature.

If you switch from Android to iPhone or vice versa you have to buy all the Apps (Keys), again!

 

And it isn't something the developer can choose to do. It is the shop owner.

 

It is your decision if you want to buy from Steam, with Steams DRM, or from ED with their DRM... The problem after the recent change is, you cannot "mix", transfer, or merge Steam and ED keys/modules beginning with the Mirage.

 

Valve made a clear and decisive step.

 

 

 

Thank you all. I think, I’ll just keep buying from the DCS Store only.

Next purchase; the “Spit” and the “Normandy”! Is there a dynamic campaign for it already?

 

I just hope, that Windows 10 will get along with Starforce nicely…

Kind regards to all,

Xanix

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Thank you all. I think, I’ll just keep buying from the DCS Store only.

Next purchase; the “Spit” and the “Normandy”! Is there a dynamic campaign for it already?

 

I just hope, that Windows 10 will get along with Starforce nicely…

Kind regards to all,

Xanix

No worries, ED does not use the old "root kit" StarForce... It is "StarForce Pro-active", which basically is a normal DRM that checks a hardware combination, generates an identification from the Hardware Serial numbers and links it to an authorization server.

The activations are generally a non issue, as you can theoretically, completely upgrade your PC every month, even after the 10 activations and 10 de-activations are used.

 

I was a bit worried myself in the beginning, but until now only the MiG-21 was a bit problematic, until Leatherneck fixed it.

Even then I had 3 Activations left, and they replenished them after the fix.

Even Black Shark, that has moved over 4 PCs in more than a decade has 3(?) activations and some deactivations left, if I remember correctly.

 

I would definitely stick to Standalone. The option to get into new modules with early access way before they are available on Steam, is a huge benefit for me.

Though with DCS 2.1 now on Steam, this seems to change.

 

EDIT - there is the Epsom Campaign available for the Spitfire, for single player.

 

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/de/products/campaigns/spitfire_operation_epsom_campaign/


Edited by shagrat

Shagrat

 

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As much as I hate DRM as such, I honestly can't say a bad thing about the way DCS makes use of it.

 

Feel free to complain all day long, but don't expect anyone to gift-wrap a bunch of keys to you just because you have a vaguely bad feeling about it.

 

The DRM ain't a problem as long it doesn't interfere the installation and using the product.

 

First StarForce were terrible as they even included a security flaws (that even most modern DRM ones does!) but you didn't even always get to use the software!

 

But the problem with DCS modules is that you are so limited with the keys. Maintain a few computer setups and you are running keys out very quickly, especially the campaigns (3 activations) even when you do deactivation when you can. After you have run out 10+10 you are left with 1 key per month and only 1 key to use so you are there waiting at worst 1-2 months to get all back and running.

 

It would be nice to just get rid of the StarForce and just have that ED store login to authorize the computer you are running.

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Well hold on, the licensing of DCS is for ONE machine, if you want to use DCS on multiple machines this is against the whole idea of DRM. What would hinder you to share your keys with your buddys?

 

An always on(line) DRM like you propose is not something I would want.

 

I would rather like the abillity to delete/unauthorize an activation (say HDD crash) via ED shop in case I am not able to do it myself anymore. But with the each 30 days a new license this is kind of pointless too.

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But the problem with DCS modules is that you are so limited with the keys.

 

Jeez, what are you doing with your activations?!

 

I think A-10C, purchased during Beta phase, is my oldest module and I believe I have 7 or more activations left.

 

Anyway, if you run out of activations, have you contacted ED support yet? I believe they will provide further activations as long as you have a plausible explanation as to why you're running out of them.

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I believe if you run out they will give you one every 30 days. I run a setup at home and a setup on the road on my laptop and have never run into any problems whatsoever , my Flanking Cliffs only has 5 left but even so I dont see it as a problem. Even the Mig21bis debarcle was not that big a deal.

 

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Well hold on, the licensing of DCS is for ONE machine, if you want to use DCS on multiple machines this is against the whole idea of DRM. What would hinder you to share your keys with your buddys?

 

An always on(line) DRM like you propose is not something I would want.

 

I would rather like the abillity to delete/unauthorize an activation (say HDD crash) via ED shop in case I am not able to do it myself anymore. But with the each 30 days a new license this is kind of pointless too.

 

No the EULA is for using it on ONE machine (same Account) at the same time. one purpose for the multiple activations, is indeed the option, to install and activate it on e.g. a Sim-pit in your basement, on your Gaming Laptop for Mission building while on the road and may be on a second PC as a backup if you need it.

The only limitation is, you cannot and are not allowed to login from more than one machine at the same time, with the same account/activation.

 

License agreement (as of Sep 2017):

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/support/license/

Shagrat

 

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Yeah not reading that, but to throw a wrench in your theory, can't be because deactivations are limited also. As I said, what would stop some friends to share their keys with each other?

 

Guys this is DRM... Works as intended, stopping you from sharing keys / using it on multiple machines. :)

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