F-14 FC3 version bundled with the sim/available separately? - Page 2 - ED Forums
 


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Old 04-02-2018, 11:14 AM   #11
thrustvector
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+1 shadow, lol on post counts, just because a post is high does not reflect a fc3 type wanted, as shadow says I feel you need a diff simulator, and the vast majority ARE here for that.
if you take a lot of what your looking for out, then its a completely different game that your after.
surely learning the controls is part of this game and the fun of it.
fc3 post count 48,000
a10c 185,000

Last edited by thrustvector; 04-02-2018 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 04-02-2018, 01:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWasp View Post
Instead of making simplified versions of modules already made for a higher standard, it would be much better to have other interesting planes as new FC3 level modules.
In an ideal world - yes. But in a real world AFM, 3D+texturing, systems development at FC3 level are very significant. Adapting a hardcore module to FC3 is much faster/cheaper than developing from scratch, there is no doubt about that.
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If you don't find it interesting, why bother in the first place ?

if you think FC3 is that much of an arcade game
The reasons for bothering were listed in OP. Interest is a scale, not a black and white thing. Some people/ some modules have/generate enough interest to invest more time, others less - but the interest is still there.

I never said that FC3 is an arcade game. It is a full on combat simulator as opposed to full on trainer of a hardcore module.


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Originally Posted by thrustvector View Post
+1 shadow, lol on post counts, just because a post is high does not reflect a fc3 type wanted,
fc3 post count 48,000
a10c 185,000
Now look at FC2 post count Of course we could simply ignore/explain away the numbers and reduce everything to "it's just your opinion, man"... Lets not This community consists of many types of modern air combat enthusiasts.
Also, I was never suggesting to replace A-10C style modules, but lets not minimise the significant interest for FC3 style simulator in DCS.

Last edited by Katmandu; 04-02-2018 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 04-02-2018, 03:57 PM   #13
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Off topic, not trying to convince you about the subject at hand:

I would encourage you to buy either the F-5 or the Mirage and then study the Chuck's guide for 20 minutes, watch some Crash Laobi 1 minute DCS tutorials, then have a one hour practice session in the mission editor. Some quick visual circuits, then some live fire excersise.

Thats all the investment you need to start enjoying those modules, if you are already experienced with something like the A10C. Being proficient and combat ready is of course an other question, but compared to the A10 and the Kamov these are much more simple.
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:16 PM   #14
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I think the FC3 aircrafts will be replaced over time with full DCS level modules, i play all the FC3 airplanes less and less because of the nice DCS modules we have and if i fly them i think every time: "why do we have no DCS module of them". I don't want any new FC3 level module anymore, just my oppinion.

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...Now look at FC2 post count ...
You do realize that the FC1 and 2 forums are also "archived" threads from a time where FC 1 and 2 was the only thing we had! These were our "best" simulation we got befor the DCS modules, that's why there are so many posts, not because there are so many people who want the "old/simple times" back.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:36 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HWasp View Post
I would encourage you to buy either the F-5 or the Mirage and then study the Chuck's guide for 20 minutes, watch some Crash Laobi 1 minute DCS tutorials,
Thats all the investment you need to start enjoying those modules
Thanks! I am an old timer here and know about Chuck’s guides (they’re awesome!) and “it is not as hard as you think” arguments (heck, I’ve posted them myself in the Ka-50 thread that I linked in my OP where somebody wanted an FC3 level Ka-50)


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You do realize that the FC1 and 2 forums are also "archived" threads from a time where FC 1 and 2 was the only thing we had!
DCS Ka-50 was out in 2008, A-10C in 2010 (?), and there was Falcon BMS of course. many people continued to enjoy FC1/FC2/FC3 during those years, and still do - as evident by the post count/views once again.

And, this FC3 VS “trainer modules” mentality is not necessary. ED have bundled “game” arcade versions of their sims (much-much cruder than FC3 unfortunately, they even went as far as create simplified flight models just for Ka-50/A-10C “game modes”). I am all for full fat full simulation modules, but having an FC3 version of the same plane would be great too. Great for FC fans and great for the developers who can sell to a broader base without having to do a huge amount of work.

Last edited by Katmandu; 04-02-2018 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:44 PM   #16
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As has been stated the fc3 planes were used to populate dcs world servers when the only available modules were the a10 and the ka50. Ideally they would be all turned to full fidelity modules in a dream world were economics didn’t exist or matter.

But economics do matter. And if we analyze your request we get extra costs for the simplified model and systems, the lost revenue from people buying the simplified version for YouTube videos or the wow factor (instead of the full extra tricked out 80s avionics and flight systems paradise+ added carrier bundle) vs the increase in sales from people who wouldn’t bother buying it but will give it a go with an easier learning curve.
Somehow I don’t think there are so many of them to tip the scales of economics.

YouTube will need a new data center for the Tomcat videos either way though
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Old 04-02-2018, 06:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katmandu View Post
...ED have bundled “game” arcade versions of their sims (much-much cruder than FC3 unfortunately, they even went as far as create simplified flight models just for Ka-50/A-10C “game modes”). I am all for full fat full simulation modules, but having an FC3 version of the same plane would be great too. Great for FC fans and great for the developers who can sell to a broader base without having to do a huge amount of work.
And they abandoned the "game-mode" and no 3rd party dev is using it? Never tried it, so i'm guessing here about 3rd party dev, but i think there was a post that ED themself is not going to implement this in any other module.
Ofcourse the FC3 aircrafts are popular, we don't have DCS modules of F-15/Su-27/Su-33/Mig-29/Su-25/-T/A-10A until now. If we would get them as full DCS modules i would never touch FC3 again and i think that is the only reason for the vast majority to fly FC3 aircrafts.
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:08 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dimitrischal View Post
But economics do matter. And if we analyze your request we get extra costs for the simplified model and systems, the lost revenue from people buying the simplified version for YouTube videos or the wow factor (instead of the full extra tricked out 80s avionics and flight systems paradise+ added carrier bundle) vs the increase in sales from people who wouldn’t bother buying it but will give it a go with an easier learning curve.
Somehow I don’t think there are so many of them to tip the scales of economics.
Economics definitely do matter. Thus my original suggestion was to bundle the FC3 mode with the full sim module, like ED did with the game mode in Ka-50 and A-10C. Without such bundle, the module is only bought by hardcore fans who are confident that they have what it takes to learn the module. With such bundle, the module will be bought by the hardcore + the FC3 crowd who are less confident (not all of FC3 guys as the price of the full module would be too high for them).

The projected sales of a separate cheaper FC3 module should also be substantial as flight sim "hardcoreness" is likely normally distributed and there are more customers for every step down in hardcoreness - ending in Ace Combat shifting millions of copies FC3 is long way up from AC series of course, but the increase in customer base should still be sizable and profitable for the little amount of extra work that is needed.

The devil may well be in detail, but if ED can turn a profit on a standalone FC3 module like SU-33, with all the modelling and physics done from scratch... Heatblur MUST make profit from converting existing module to FC3.

Last edited by Katmandu; 04-02-2018 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:17 PM   #19
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Not to sound like an elitist or anything, but if I had my way I would remove all the FC3 aircraft from my server, they cause too many balance issues with the real simulated aircraft, (time to being the air, difficulty in weapon launching, etc, they are clearly easier to run). BUt too many people fly them, I really cant, community is too small (and there is really no newer fully simulated russian fighters, I really wish there were too)
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Old 04-02-2018, 07:37 PM   #20
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yea you see I don't agree with the great for FC3 fans thing, as said above, the reasons people still fly, myself included the F15,SU 25 etc etc, is because we don't have a full cockpit model, this being the type of sim it is is why we love it, its not arcady its full on, I have off by heart every click of every switch in every model I own, I spend a few hours going over the start of every new module till I get it straight off, and before you say I'm no spring chicken, and have meds that don't help.
I'm not saying this for an argument, far from it, I just really don't think the majority are after an easier simulation, dam I hate even the quick start buttons being in game lol

Last edited by thrustvector; 04-02-2018 at 07:41 PM.
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