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Well i have a pit granted its not full retard like others but it is a Volair sim pit. Pics are around these forums. I find its a great setup For the VR Flight and pit operations.

I wonder if Wags will be getting a Free Developers edition Vive..

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The VR market for those with full pits is so tiny it isn't worth worrying about. That said it should be quite easy for those with full pits to find their switches without having to look for them. I have a three piece Hotas system not including the pedals, with hundreds of possible options, and I've never have to look for a switch or button after a few days use. People with full pits are looking for the highest realism possible, so having to learn how to fly in the dark like a real pilot won't be an issue for most of them. Not being able to see inputs is just a fear of the unknown, and a Tempest in a Teacup.

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It should be very easy for Wags to get a free Valve headset. That said, it may be another thing altogether for them to change HMD support, or add support for two headsets. I would imagine its way to early for Wags to know which would be the better option, and will probably stay the course with Oculus support until more is known on both options.

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im waiting for all the people that have been hating on oculus to start complaining once the price is released on this headset. from what i have read there is some fancy tech in it and that comes with a price tag. that is why oculus has made it so far because the average joe can afford it. there are headsets with way better specs then the rift and with the same price tag the rift could be at that point but no one will buy it.

 

i personally think trackir need to make a headset with high res but using there 3 point tracking system so you dont need rediculous fps. on my old vr920 i ripped the tracking unit out and put a trackir on it for best results.

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Well I think for most who are committed and have any sort of intelligence on this know that the price will be high for the full vive but well worth it. If everybody is expecting to pay 350 dollars for official Vr tech they are going to be highly disappointed.

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i personally think trackir need to make a headset with high res but using there 3 point tracking system so you dont need rediculous fps. on my old vr920 i ripped the tracking unit out and put a trackir on it for best results.

 

You still need the high refresh rate to avoid motion sickness. Trackir won't cut it.

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Apparently the Dev kit will be available to select/qualified developers for free

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/03/valve-to-offer-htc-vive-developer-edition-for-free/

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The price is a simple matter if mass production and quality control. The more you produce, with no quality issues (90%+ production usable) the sooner the price drops, as others will buy the same "ingredients" and offer a product similar to yours without the research costs...

Considering the price tag on a big 4k TV screen recently, it seems not too bad at say $1.000 plus at start.

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The "seeing the real world" is easily fixed. You have a camera on the front of the headset, just add a toggle switch, or some fancy positioning, to fade the "real world" in and the game world out.

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Most people can find a light switch in the dark, and invariably its the first think they put their hand on. Most switches in a cockpit are unique, so most people if they initially missed the switch they were looking for would realize by feel that the switch they want is just to the left/right/etc etc. Muscle memory would soon have them doing it without having to consciously think about it. And your not in the dark, your in a virtual world.

 

That said, all the headset companies are looking and implementing pass thru options. I don't believe the pass thru option is optimal in a lot of cases, as it immediately kills the holy grail of VR presence.

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im waiting for all the people that have been hating on oculus to start complaining once the price is released on this headset. from what i have read there is some fancy tech in it and that comes with a price tag. that is why oculus has made it so far because the average joe can afford it. there are headsets with way better specs then the rift and with the same price tag the rift could be at that point but no one will buy it.

 

i personally think trackir need to make a headset with high res but using there 3 point tracking system so you dont need rediculous fps. on my old vr920 i ripped the tracking unit out and put a trackir on it for best results.

 

Things could change, but Oculus is still talking a pricepoint between 200 and 400 dollars, and have talked about selling the Oculus Rift at cost. Oculus is creating all the custom parts themselves, and have access to Samsung custom displays at a decent pricepoint because of their partnership with Samsung. The Oculus headset will be far cheaper an more immersive than any monitor/trackIR setup. Although a headset resolution would have to be 16K to compete with the clarity of a decent monitor, but most people who have tried VR prefer the presence of virtual reality headset.

 

We have to assume Oculus plans to gain revenues from the sale of the software for VR, and probably why they have invested so heavily in software development. Selling their hardware at cost will put a serious crimp in their competition. HTC has said their unit will cost more, but I assume their price will include the input wands. Oculus has bought a Haptics company and are working on their own input devices, but no word yet if those inputs will be ready for the headset release. That said, input wands are not a priority for the flight sim community.

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Nope, its not good with 163 switches. Its ridiculous. Many of the toggles are identical. You have to put your hand on them and count them across to get the right one even when you have memorized them. Its totally absurd. Switching on pass through is the only option for a decent experience. Fumbling for switches immediately kills immersion too.

 

 

I guarantee you that finding those switches is easy and real pilots do it all the time. A see thru option is an experience killer.

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Nope, its not good with 163 switches. Its ridiculous. Many of the toggles are identical. You have to put your hand on them and count them across to get the right one even when you have memorized them. Its totally absurd. Switching on pass through is the only option for a decent experience. Fumbling for switches immediately kills immersion too.

 

Pass through in vr is a very bad idea. It defeats the entire purpose of a VR headset. If you've built a home cockpit then continue to use monitors/projectors or wait for augmented reality devices like those from technical illusions or microsoft.

 

A hotas with a trackball is all we need with virtual clickable cockpits at least until descent hand tracking is developed. If you've gone to the effort of building a home cockpit with 163 switches then VR is kinda pointless.

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I wonder if the USAF is planning on replacing their simulators with VR headsets?

 

I don't think VR and clickable cockpit, using a mouse/trackball, is suitable for what the people doing military training are trying to achieve. In some select situations, perhaps, but in general, I doubt it.

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It won't take long and stuff like Control VR ( http://controlvr.com ) will emerge on the market and mature in the process. Combine that with a virtual pit, the only thing missing is haptical feedback, e.g. to feel the switch...

I'm pretty confident even that is just a matter of time.

There are a lot of researchers working on haptic feedback in multiple directions, and some results are already promising.


Edited by shagrat

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It won't take long and stuff like Control VR ( http://controlvr.com ) will emerge on the market and mature in the process. Combine that with a virtual pit, the only thing missing is haptical feedback, e.g. to feel the switch...

I'm pretty confident even that is just a matter of time.

There are a lot of researchers working on haptic feedback in multiple directions, and some results are already promising.

 

Add 'really promising' to government (USA at least) procurement process time frames, and it will still be quite some time before the physical pit simulator is replace in the military environment.

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I was not specifically referring to military. In fact it will take the military longer to switch to such a system as it needs to be tested, approved etc.

The ControlVR aims at the game industry like the Oculus Rift... And it already is quite a promising setup, even without haptic feedback.

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Or it can all be a moot point if Magic Leap does what their intro/promo video promises to do in the future. We'll see. Brave new world, that's for sure.

 

http://techcrunch.com/2015/03/19/watch-magic-leaps-video-of-seamless-augmented-reality-office-game-play/

 

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Well, the first "Leap Motion" controller wasn't even remotely meeting our expectations at work. Too imprecise, no real tracking of individual fingers, especially if they overlap, etc.

The concept might work with the next version, but yes, it is an interesting tool.

By the way, Control VR uses a leap motion like tracker to "calibrate" and verify hand/finger position against the inertial sensor inputs, which makes it veeery precise.


Edited by shagrat

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I think the Valve/HTC technology is all about expanding the capabilities of spatial capture to enable capture precision in the millimeter range for the head and other elements.

 

IF you have REAL cockpit controls that are millimeter accurate to a virtual cockpit

AND you anchor the REAL pit into the 3D space then

you WILL be able to reach out for a virtual switch and touch a REAL switch.

 

Someone will do this BUT it might not be Eagle Dynamics.

 

For this to work in DCS would require Eagle Dynamics to publish CAD files for their 3D pits so that people can make a REAL counterpart.

 

The main gotcha would be if it turns out that ED's pits are are not actually spatially accurate to a REAL pit and are just visual approximations that look realistic in their renderer.

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fearlessfrog, Michael Abrash would not approve. Valve is pursing a whole nother level of immersion with VIVE. Watch this video through to get an idea of their ambition.

 

from 42m10s

 

I agree that hacks will be pretty cool but I don't think that hack qualifies as the kind of experience Abrash would describe as "Presence".

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It won't take long and stuff like Control VR ( http://controlvr.com ) will emerge on the market and mature in the process. Combine that with a virtual pit, the only thing missing is haptical feedback, e.g. to feel the switch...

I'm pretty confident even that is just a matter of time.

There are a lot of researchers working on haptic feedback in multiple directions, and some results are already promising.

 

Oculus has bought a Haptic feedback company so one of their consumer versions if not the first could have haptic feedback.

 

Personally I'm not sure any of this type of tech is necessary for flight sims. The real tactile feedback of a pit or Hotas would feel much more realistic. There might be a immersion disconnect between the switch position in the virtual cockpit and the Hotas/pit switch position, not to mention all the different cockpit types, but I think most would just concentrate on the gauges in the virtual pit, and easily find their switches by feel. I would find it very hard to believe that if someone were able to build their own pit , and couldn't quickly find the rotaries, levers, and switches.


Edited by Chivas
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Physical pit does not give you any sense of flight. Something Vr does very well. Sorry but seeing most pit builders around here build a uber pit with uber amounts of switches only to use them with a pc monitor is a joke. I thought a 55 inch with my pit was epic in 3d, it doesn't even scratch the surface to what vr adds to my pit. Everybody will have their preferences I just recently changed mine.

I7 4770k @ 4.6, sli 980 evga oc edition, ssdx2, Sony 55 inch edid hack nvidia 3dvision. Volair sim pit, DK2 Oculus Rift.

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It is a joke if you spend all those man hours and money on a cool pit to only have the most important aspect to that virtual verse, a small pc monitor. Rather have a huge window into that world aka big screen than switches. I do find it funny when people say immersion is awesome and their flying on a 30 inch or smaller computer monitor.

Big reason why our military simulators have very large screens and or domes as it puts you in that verse. Now vr really opens a new door into this realm and offers many different ways of utilization.

I7 4770k @ 4.6, sli 980 evga oc edition, ssdx2, Sony 55 inch edid hack nvidia 3dvision. Volair sim pit, DK2 Oculus Rift.

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