Stores Management?

Why is Stores Management so simple on the Hornet compared to the Thunderbolt? Is it even close to accurate? I think there are concessions being made for game play here...

Nope it's that simple, the only concession that was made was being able to change the laser code for GBU-10,12,16 in the stores page. That is normally set on the ground.

i particularly like the way that the Hornet automatically recognises that a re-arm has taken place, unlike the A10C, which you have to "prod" to get it to do so.

don't get me wrong, i still like the A10C a lot, but this always seems to make re-arming a lot more complicated than it needs to be. maybe i've missed something?

Pressing maybe 3 buttons isn't making that soo much more complicated, no?

Nope it's that simple, the only concession that was made was being able to change the laser code for GBU-10,12,16 in the stores page. That is normally set on the ground.

Yeah, I think they could do something like a pre-flight page on the kneeboard like razbam is doing to set those paramaters. Of course JTAC's in DCS are very inflexible compared to IRL too.

I just pretend I'm climbing out of the cockpit with a screwdriver to set the codes myself. Its super immersive in VR too :)

So, how does the Hornet automatically know what kind of dumb bomb is on it? A Mark 82,83,84 isn't going to communicate to the plane? ������ There's a concession being made here... Perhaps a new data cartridge is being loaded?

The real Hornet doesn‘t know that just by itself indeed but it is „told“ by setting codes on the corresponding panel on the jet, but not in the cockpit (someone else will know the term for that access door and panel on the jet). Since we do not have an interface to that panel in DCS it makes sense they just pretend the codes were (re)set as part of the rearming procedure.

If anything in real life it's easier because the fuzes are set on the bombs themselves. But I mean this is a fairly modern fighter jet, it doesn't surprise me it has a well designed user interface.

So, how does the Hornet automatically know what kind of dumb bomb is on it?

irl the pilot enters data at an access point on the side of the aircraft and tells it what weapons are on what stations.

i particularly like the way that the Hornet automatically recognises that a re-arm has taken place, unlike the A10C, which you have to "prod" to get it to do so.

 

don't get me wrong, i still like the A10C a lot, but this always seems to make re-arming a lot more complicated than it needs to be. maybe i've missed something?

As others have already pointed out: On the Hornet this is done on an outboard panel, either by the pilot or by the ground crew.

Nope it's that simple, the only concession that was made was being able to change the laser code for GBU-10,12,16 in the stores page. That is normally set on the ground.

I really don't understand why ED does that. They always say how much they strive for a authenticate representation of the real aircraft but then they add stuff like laser code input which isn't there in the real aircraft...

Yeah, I think they could do something like a pre-flight page on the kneeboard like razbam is doing to set those paramaters. Of course JTAC's in DCS are very inflexible compared to IRL too.

 

I just pretend I'm climbing out of the cockpit with a screwdriver to set the codes myself. Its super immersive in VR too :)

ED, as the developer of the actual game could just go ahead and add this functionality to the rearm menu and make this available for all everyone, so no kneeboard workarounds are needed for the 3rd party modules...

I really don't understand why this isn't happening :huh:

+1

It would really work well in the re-arm menu.

Like when selecting weapon, there could be a window that is a replica of the panel on the real jet to do further configuration of the weapons(e.g laser codes and stuff).

I believe the data cartridge feature being developed for the Hornet would address some of these issues.

I really don't understand why ED does that. They always say how much they strive for a authenticate representation of the real aircraft but then they add stuff like laser code input which isn't there in the real aircraft...

Probably because the alternative — to create a proper universal DTC (and/or equivalent systems) and pre-flight management UI — would require a ton of work for something that's not very splashy and easy to sell as The Best Thing Ever®. To be done right, it would not only require a hefty (re)prioritisation of development means, but would also require a long and exhausting discussion with all third-party developers to get them to rewrite their modules.

Meanwhile, everyone is doing their bespoke solution — kneeboard settings, in-cockpit settings, mission-editor settings, special-tab settings — creating more and more work that would have to be unified if a proper functionality is ever put in place. The inertia of reworking an existing solution is huge in and of itself; the inertia of an ever-expanding and diverging set of solutions is monumental.

Probably because the alternative — to create a proper universal DTC (and/or equivalent systems) and pre-flight management UI — would require a ton of work for something that's not very splashy and easy to sell as The Best Thing Ever®. To be done right, it would not only require a hefty (re)prioritisation of development means, but would also require a long and exhausting discussion with all third-party developers to get them to rewrite their modules.

 

Meanwhile, everyone is doing their bespoke solution — kneeboard settings, in-cockpit settings, mission-editor settings, special-tab settings — creating more and more work that would have to be unified if a proper functionality is ever put in place. The inertia of reworking an existing solution is huge in and of itself; the inertia of an ever-expanding and diverging set of solutions is monumental.

I'm not talking about a full DTC implementation or anything like that (that would be awesome though). I just want a laser code setting in the rearming window, below the chaff, flare, gun and fuel settings. That can't be too much work...

I'm not talking about a DTC or anything like that. I just want a laser code setting in the rearming window, below the chaff, flare, gun and fuel settings. That can't be too much work...

In and of itself, no, but that would just be another bespoke solution that would add to the mound of things that should be handled in a unified UI. It would be another quick-fix for an ever-growing problem that needs a complete removal of all quick-fixes.

e: I had to double-check to see if I had forgotten one (and I had), but just look at the list: this is an issue that affects the A-10, AJS-37, AV-8, F-5, F-14, F-16, F/A-18, and M-2000. The rest is a bunch of trainers and/or planes from the 1950s (and some of those should probably realistically be included as well). It's a systemic missing functionality that really warrants a systemic revamp and solution.

In and of itself, no, but that would just be another bespoke solution that would add to the mound of things that should be handled in a unified UI. It would be another quick-fix for an ever-growing problem that needs a complete removal of all quick-fixes.

 

e: I had to double-check to see if I had forgotten one (and I had), but just look at the list: this is an issue that affects the A-10, AJS-37, AV-8, F-5, F-14, F-16, F/A-18, and M-2000. The rest is a bunch of trainers and/or planes from the 1950s (and some of those should probably realistically be included as well). It's a systemic missing functionality that really warrants a systemic revamp and solution.

The data cartridge problem has not really anything to do with the laser code problem. ED is working on a data cartridge solution: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3803475&postcount=131

But laser bomb codes are not being loaded through a cartridge. They have to be set on the bombs itself by the ground crew, so it would be nice to have this option in the rearming menu instead of having fantasy input options (Hornet, Warthog, Harrier) or kneeboard workarounds (Mirage 2000, Tiger II, Tomcat).

The data cartridge problem has not really anything to do with the laser code problem. ED is working on a data cartridge solution: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3803475&postcount=131

Again, that's just yet another bespoke solution for a single airframe rather than a systemic fix to a systemic issue. It's not addressing the actual problem of having all these disparate solutions to setting up preflight options — it's really just making that problem worse.

It's actually kind of sad to see that they're wasting time on such a bad solution… :(

But laser bomb codes are not being loaded through a cartridge. They have to be set on the bombs itself by the ground crew, so it would be nice to have this option in the rearming menu instead of having fantasy input options (Hornet, Warthog, Harrier) or kneeboard workarounds (Mirage 2000, Tiger II, Tomcat).

I'm not saying that the loadout screen might not be a good fit for squeezing in various weapon settings (there are more than just laser codes that really should go there), but imo that just suggests that the loadout screen itself is not really where it should be. It is yet another part of that pre-flight setup… ideally, it should also be hellalot more flexible in terms of how loadouts are built up, but that's a slightly tangential and far more deep-rooted issue.

There are so many things — and an increasing amount of them — that are stuck where they don't belong because of this missing pre-flight step, and if/when we ever get to that mythical era when there's a dynamic campaign, all these these things must also be changeable “live” and not contained in some main game settings menu. At some point, the guy in charge of tasking flights will have to be able to do (essentially) live mission editing while everything on the map is moving, while pilots picking up those tasks will have to be able to do live plane setup editing to match the tasks they're given.

This can't be handled solely though waypoint properties, the Special tab, or clumsy keyboard-riven kneemap fiddling. It needs its own, vastly expanded, real-time UI. Until then, replacing one bad set of bespoke solutions with another set of bad solutions that will at some point be ripped out anyway is just… pointless.

The Mission Card allows you to set up software options for all missions that includes such items as radar settings, countermeasures, AG weapon programs, and navigation settings.

Lasercodes could become part of the weapon programming through the mission card.

I hope the mission card and a mission planner including improved weapon selection will be available after loading a mission in SP or selecting a slot in MP before entering the cockpit and the settings can be saved.

As long as the JTAC can't change their laser code, you have to change it in the plane. IRL the pilot give his weapon's code to the JTAC, not the opposit.

As long as the JTAC can't change their laser code, you have to change it in the plane. IRL the pilot give his weapon's code to the JTAC, not the opposit.

This makes sense.

As long as the JTAC can't change their laser code, you have to change it in the plane. IRL the pilot give his weapon's code to the JTAC, not the opposit.

Isn't the AI JTAC just always using the same code ( 1688 ) anyways? I've never had problems with that when employing LGBs with the F-5 or the Mirage. :dunno:

Again, that's just yet another bespoke solution for a single airframe rather than a systemic fix to a systemic issue. It's not addressing the actual problem of having all these disparate solutions to setting up preflight options — it's really just making that problem worse.

 

It's actually kind of sad to see that they're wasting time on such a bad solution… :(

 

True, but it's same issue set: various preflight setup and setting steps that are seeping into inappropriate in-flight bits of interaction. Bomb setups, target setups, countermeasure setups, flight computer setups etc etc etc — they're all things that should be their own “set up the plane” step before you even get to the cockpit.

 

I'm not saying that the loadout screen might not be a good fit for squeezing in various weapon settings (there are more than just laser codes that really should go there), but imo that just suggests that the loadout screen itself is not really where it should be. It is yet another part of that pre-flight setup… ideally, it should also be hellalot more flexible in terms of how loadouts are built up, but that's a slightly tangential and far more deep-rooted issue.

 

There are so many things — and an increasing amount of them — that are stuck where they don't belong because of this missing pre-flight step, and if/when we ever get to that mythical era when there's a dynamic campaign, all these these things must also be changeable “live” and not contained in some main game settings menu. At some point, the guy in charge of tasking flights will have to be able to do (essentially) live mission editing while everything on the map is moving, while pilots picking up those tasks will have to be able to do live plane setup editing to match the tasks they're given.

 

This can't be handled solely though waypoint properties, the Special tab, or clumsy keyboard-riven kneemap fiddling. It needs its own, vastly expanded, real-time UI. Until then, replacing one bad set of bespoke solutions with another set of bad solutions that will at some point be ripped out anyway is just… pointless.

While I basically agree with you, such a solution would indeed require a lot of work. It would be a dream come true if we would actually get something like that eventually, but untill then I would be happy about a quick-fix solution that allows us to set the laser code in the reaming menu instead of having fantasy cockpit functions or kneeboard workarounds.

It would be a dream come true if we would actually get something like that eventually, but untill then I would be happy about a quick-fix solution that allows us to set the laser code in the reaming menu instead of having fantasy cockpit functions or kneeboard workarounds.

There are definitely more real bugs to fix than to take care about this game contraint.

And it won't be easy to fix as there will be other points in the line which have to be fixed as well.

JTAC. See some posts above. Always yelling for R/L on minor things isn't helpful for the big thing.

How many of you have actually memorized the SMP codes? Do you even have them (I do, but the majority of players don't).

If we're not doing any other part of the exterior inspection then why focus on this part?

We don't set the gun safety switch, we don't check the arming lanyard on bombs, there is plenty we don't do, typing in SMP codes isn't something we need to add.

I do however agree we shouldn't be able to change our laser codes on the weapon in flight, I see why ED implemented that but I do agree that it should be set on the ground only, whether it's in the rearm dialog box (my preference) or on the kneeboard it doesn't matter.

I wouldn't necessarily call this a bug, but the TGP should mount on station 5, NOT 6

There are definitely more real bugs to fix than to take care about this game contraint.

And it won't be easy to fix as there will be other points in the line which have to be fixed as well.

JTAC. See some posts above. Always yelling for R/L on minor things isn't helpful for the big thing.

I never said this should be top priority, did I? I think it is still allowed though to talk about issues that are not as important as others...