How to trim when wings go from manual to auto ?

Not sure if this was implemented in the last patch but I am having a hard time trimming the Cat if I go from manual into auto wing mode. She just goes straight up like a rocket and I am unable to counter this with nose down trim.

Further I'd like to know if one can disable maneuver flaps during AAR in auto wing mode, is there a switch to turn off all flaps to make her more stable / predictable ?

Thx

Trimming is not fast enough. You have to use the stick.

From manual:

"While normally automatic the maneuver flap system can be manually controlled using the DLC & maneuver flap command thumbwheel on the control stick. Forward thumbwheel rotation retracts the flaps and slats and aft thumbwheel rotation extends them."

so there's no switch to it. That's why Tomcat drivers use manual wing sweep during AAR as stated in NATOPS normal procedure.

Ok. I've seen this a lot in the forums lately. You do not fly an aircraft with trim. You deflect the flight control stick or yoke to maintain whatever attitude you want to hold and then trim to relieve the pressure off the stick. In other words, trim until you could take your hand off the control. Now that maybe because of the springs in your flight stick or the aerodynamic pressures in a mechanically connected flight control, but the principal still holds.

So when transitioning you have to still fly the A/C with your stick until you get the A/C stable and then trim. Same applies in Case 1 approach. Trim is not there as a fine flight control input. This is probably one of the big things Flight Sims will tend to erroneously instill in pilots who later transition to real Aircraft.

That's why Tomcat drivers use manual wing sweep during AAR as stated in NATOPS normal procedure.

Manual wingsweep actually worsens the situation, as it increases AoA and therefore decreases the AoA margin for maneuver flaps deployment (unless you sweep past the flaps interlock, which you don't want to do). This doesn't mean you shouldn't use MAN sweep, just make sure to choose a wingsweep setting that gets you way below maneuver flaps deployment AoA (approx 10 units).

If/when (some) circuit breakers are implemented, you can pull the maneuver flaps CB to prevent them from deploying.

I thought you have the wings in bomb mode while Inflight Refuelling....?

Manual wingsweep actually worsens the situation, as it increases AoA and therefore decreases the AoA margin for maneuver flaps deployment (unless you sweep past the flaps interlock, which you don't want to do). This doesn't mean you shouldn't use MAN sweep, just make sure to choose a wingsweep setting that gets you way below maneuver flaps deployment AoA (approx 10 units).

I usually just sweep to bomb and this makes it much easier to AAR, just like others do as I heard. Now explain me the science behind this 'cause AAR in auto is another level I'm not at yet.

The more you sweep the wings back, the less lift they generate at a given airspeed and AoA. So when you sweep back, you will need either more speed or more AoA to produce enough lift to keep you level. Since tanker speeds are often preset, the latter is your only option.

Sweeping wings back for tanking makes sense for two reasons however:

First, with the increased AoA, your tails drop further below the tankers jetwash/wake turbulunce.

Second, as the wings sweep backwards, the center of lift shifts backwards, making the airplane more stable in pitch.

So sweeping back makes sense, however, 55° (i.e. bomb mode) may be too much for low tanker speeds. Try using 40° or lower if your AoA gets too high.

Yes I know how trim works mate. After refueling in bomb mode and switching to the tankers right side I'd just like to go back to auto wings. This is where she goes up like hell, even stick fully forward can't keep you in a decent formation. Probably the speed is just so slow so the transition to auto mode is quite brutal when it comes to pitch. Moving the wings forward step by step helps, wonder how it were done IRL.

Ok. I've seen this a lot in the forums lately. You do not fly an aircraft with trim. You deflect the flight control stick or yoke to maintain whatever attitude you want to hold and then trim to relieve the pressure off the stick. In other words, trim until you could take your hand off the control. Now that maybe because of the springs in your flight stick or the aerodynamic pressures in a mechanically connected flight control, but the principal still holds.

 

 

 

So when transitioning you have to still fly the A/C with your stick until you get the A/C stable and then trim. Same applies in Case 1 approach. Trim is not there as a fine flight control input. This is probably one of the big things Flight Sims will tend to erroneously instill in pilots who later transition to real Aircraft.

Why not just stay in bomb, since you're still flying the same net profile on the tanker's wing?

Save the configuration and trim adjustment for when you're reconfiguring for a different cruise profile.

Not sure if this was implemented in the last patch but I am having a hard time trimming the Cat if I go from manual into auto wing mode. She just goes straight up like a rocket and I am unable to counter this with nose down trim.

After a few hours flying the cat, one knows approximately the wing sweep angle that the automatism will chose according to flight settings. What I do is manually settle the sweep angle step by step while trimming accordingly. When the cat is correctly trimmed and has approximately the right wing sweep angle, you can go automatic without rearing like a mad horse.

Yes I know how trim works mate. After refueling in bomb mode and switching to the tankers right side I'd just like to go back to auto wings. This is where she goes up like hell, even stick fully forward can't keep you in a decent formation. Probably the speed is just so slow so the transition to auto mode is quite brutal when it comes to pitch. Moving the wings forward step by step helps, wonder how it were done IRL.

So if full pitch down doesn't work, how do you expect trim to do so? The transition is going to be brutal in any flight regime where you rapidly change your wing profile and consequently your lift variables. Keep it at the setting until you leave the formation. And as lunaticfringe said bomb mode works, as it does for all formation flying. Even all the way down to 200kts as long as you don't perform any rapid maneuvers. What purpose does transitioning serve? You maybe inefficiently configured for a while, but not un-flyable. After you leave the formation, power out until you reach a speed at which the CADC would have swept the wings back anyway and then switch to Auto.

If you want to know what they did in real life you would have to ask the Tomcat pilots on the forum, but I suspect you are not going to get one definitive answer, since from what I've gathered different squads/aircrews did things differently. The last recommendation I saw was to fly in Bomb Mode. Has worked for me since day 1.

So if full pitch down doesn't work, how do you expect trim to do so? The transition is going to be brutal in any flight regime where you rapidly change your wing profile and consequently your lift variables. Keep it at the setting until you leave the formation. And as lunaticfringe said bomb mode works, as it does for all formation flying. Even all the way down to 200kts as long as you don't perform any rapid maneuvers. What purpose does transitioning serve? You maybe inefficiently configured for a while, but not un-flyable. After you leave the formation, power out until you reach a speed at which the CADC would have swept the wings back anyway and then switch to Auto.

 

If you want to know what they did in real life you would have to ask the Tomcat pilots on the forum, but I suspect you are not going to get one definitive answer, since from what I've gathered different squads/aircrews did things differently. The last recommendation I saw was to fly in Bomb Mode. Has worked for me since day 1.

The man just wants to look cool,when flying in formation with a tanker after refueling.

As for real life,i have heard that anything goes-personal preference.Bomb mode is always used by new pilots and Nuggets.

Haven't checked this info.

Nothing looks cooler in a formation than being the one misconfigured guy who is bouncing around, trying to configure throttle and trim at a point in the envelope where the jet wants to do two things at once.

Of course, YMMV.

I guess some of us are here for Penny Benjamin. Others are here for the Trophy.

Forgot the sarcasm tag.

Dammit- I hate it when it does that.