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Old 09-04-2017, 09:39 PM   #141
microvax
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SHaDoW STeP BG View Post
I am saying there was enough space to safely stop before the bombed area, which was close to the middle from the west side. Should bomb close to the ends, so planes break their "ankles" when they land .

And besides, on the south side of Kutaisi, there is perfectly straight taxiway with the exact same length as the runway.

Was cool, maybe a bit under thought in the execution phase, as you said it was a last minute job ? Defo, not good enough to stop rogue pilots landing and using precious fuel in the situation given. We executed and stole fighter jets, a bit of bombing and soil spread around won't stop us.

BTW, how big are those bombs you dropped ?
Your perception of what is safe for your aircraft seems unrealistic to me.
The MIG29 as a dedicated frontline aircraft does have closing intake doors for exactly previously named reasons.

For breaking ankles. There were multiple f15s driving over the craters.... nothing happend to them because they have that type of interaction not modelled.
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Old 09-04-2017, 11:41 PM   #142
M0ltar
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The 29 has closing doors to stop debris because Russian airfields have grass etc all over. They are not nearly as clean as NATO bases. Those doors are not made to stop bomb craters and prevent the aircraft from falling in. The point is that if the runway is bombed no plane would be taking off. Just because it's not modelled doesn't make it ok. All flaming cliffs aircraft will not fall into runway craters, but all full fidelity aircraft will.

Further more, just because you can does not mean you should. Bombing the airfield was meant in this event, if I understand it, to shut it down like it would in real life. If the runway is out of commission I. Real life that airfield is essentially useless until it is repaired. This is why in the Falklands War they bombed the Argentinian runway; to stop aircraft from being able to la d and take off. Again, just because the sim doesn't model it doesn't mean we should abuse it. I would really like more movement to real life behavior instead of just doing things because you can.

Last edited by M0ltar; 09-04-2017 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 09-05-2017, 08:09 AM   #143
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don't know for other, I am talking for me and I am 100% my plane did feel the bumps, but they were not craters.

Bad positioning.

Taxiway was still safe and far enough

Aren't the bombs you dropped like just big amount of small pellets ? I am not familiar with the viggen.

I might just have the wrong perception
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Old 09-05-2017, 10:06 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by SHaDoW STeP BG View Post
don't know for other, I am talking for me and I am 100% my plane did feel the bumps, but they were not craters.

Bad positioning.

Taxiway was still safe and far enough

Aren't the bombs you dropped like just big amount of small pellets ? I am not familiar with the viggen.

I might just have the wrong perception




This is what happens to planes thanks to small objects on the runway.

That is the last Thing I am going to contribute to this topic.
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Old 09-06-2017, 10:23 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microvax View Post

This is what happens to planes thanks to small objects on the runway.

That is the last Thing I am going to contribute to this topic.
Yeah, small bombs, bad positioning. And even if you say there is a enormous amount of shrapnel from these "gigantic" pellets, which are berried in the dirt. THERE IS STILL THE TAXYWAY, which at most would have just a bit of dirt on it.

Pretty sure that concord accident was from big metal piece(control surface, from an another jet) being launched by the gear up into the weak fuel tanks of the plane.

Second picture, mate are you havin a giggle, did a backtrack on it and that is from an A300 from 2003 in Iraq which was hit by a SAM....... , yeah "small objects", a damn missile.

http://www.forospp.com/foros/content...tdown-incident

If jets can take-off from these, they can handle a bit of dirt on the taxiway,which is probably around 100 meters from the runway(I can measure it if you want to):






Plus, that is at least 100 from the center of your drop, the taxi way has the same length as the runway, do I need to tell you what that means ?

I am not even going to comment about russian planes and their dirt protections.

Well, they are not F-15s, but neither are the taxiways looking like that.

I am not saying your point is not correct. You guys just didn't do a good job. A good enough job. And I can add that. yes DCS doesn't model these types of stuff in the best way, so it does make it a bit more difficult.

Last edited by Shadow KT; 09-06-2017 at 10:53 PM.
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Old 09-07-2017, 01:21 AM   #146
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Good enough job? How do you define a good enough job? FC3 planes, again, don't give a shit about craters or anything on the runway or taxi way. They float right over them. Further more, dirt and sand is very different then massive pieces of runway and airfield all over your taxiway and runway. What happens when your front landing gear hits a 1ft piece of runway that was blown off from the bombs? The front gear collapses and you crash. Engine intake shields are not going to do crap for your gear. Furthermore, even if the taxiway was not hit, there would be shit all of it. massive pieces of debris etc. Yes, you could use it eventually, but it is going to take the airfield personnel longer than 5 min to clear it and clean it. Again, dirt and sand is very different than massive rocks, pieces of concrete and tarmac.

I don't know where you're getting off with this. Our point is that when the airfield was bombed and the bombs hit the airfield the airfield should have closed for at least a period of time. I realize that this is not real life and that is, again, part of my point. We cant simulate real life conditions of what happens on airfield bomb strikes. So, we need to make do that if the runway was bombed it should close otherwise there is no point in even having these missions to bomb airfields to shut them down. Its not really fair to have these missions and then say well I can still take off in my fake plane because my fake plane doesn't even take into account the state of the runway being used. Hell, a lot of the time, if you crash on a runway other players can roll straight through your wreckage. By your accounts this is completely fair. My plane is not effected by phantom aircraft so I should be able to use it.

Lastly, everyone wants this mission to be supoer realistic and for us to be as true to life as possible. We want ATC to be as real as we can. We want people using correct comms. We want people in separate flights. We want all this stuff, but you say that, again, just because your plane isnt effected by modeling in DCS or you cant see debris on the runway and taxiway then its fair game and is realistic.

Come on. We all know that airfield should have been shut down. That was the whole point of the strike and Micro and Dackster hit the runway. In any real life situation that airfield would have ceased operation for a time that I guarantee would be longer than 5 minutes because what happens if you have to abort a take off? What happens if you have an emergency landing? Thats right, you're either hitting debris or your ass is in a crater and dead.

Your 'little pellets' were 120kg. Normal runway munitions are 25-30kg. Those 120kg bombs, and there were 16, would put sizable holes in your runway. Even if those holes were not huge, they would still kick up large pieces of debris and make your runway unusable. And yes, debris would have no problem flying 100ft or further to land on your precious taxi way...

Lastly, Shadow, your plane did not feel pumps because it is a FC3 aircraft. In that mission you were flying an F15 and those planes do not care about craters on the runway. They float right over them. You will not feel anything because the FC3 aircraft do not care about it. If you were in an M2000 or anything that was full fidelity or even a mig29, su25, or a10a and you hit a crater, even a very very small one, your gear would be ripped off and you would crash. Simple as that. You could drop a nuke on the runway and your F15 would take off like its just another day in paradise.

Last edited by M0ltar; 09-07-2017 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 09-07-2017, 08:29 AM   #147
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I thought you were using a different munition. 120 is better, it is still HE tho, but I agree it could do damage. MY WHOLE POINT IS THAT YOU CANNOT HIT A SINGLE AREA OF THE RUNWAY AND CLOSE AN AIRFIELD, what if it was Sochi ? Even if it didn't have a second runway, the main one is so big, plus the taxiway. I am okey with a down time of 5 mins for cleaning small debris, after that attack(Don't know when the attack was done, but we were landing pretty much at the end of the game). Maybe a set rules of which spots you have to hit for maximum effect and how much downtime or complete closure of the runway, should be set.

1ft of conrete, yeaa...







As we are not going to agree, I just think that for future events, there has to be set "rules" with different zones, how much does it cost to repair certain zone (in time) depending on what was dropped, or if either the whole airfield is marked as unusable. How about that ? You agree with me ?
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