Spitfire ground handling updated in 2.1?

Also all of the warbirds get takeoff assistance defaulted to 100 so you might want to check out.

Also all of the warbirds get takeoff assistance defaulted to 100 so you might want to check out.

Yeah, I did. And it's mentioned on page 1 of the thread ;)

Still is a lot more stable at 100%.

I just feel that it's more stable at 0%, than before 2.1. Yet I can't see that it's mentioned in the patch notes.

It is more stable on ground, which might be as a consequence of dragging on the ground. But certainly makes taxiing easier.

Ground handling is so much easier now. So much for those that were chestbeating on release that the aircraft was perfect and people just needed to get good because bla bla narrow undercarriage when the other warbirds had very similar problems when they came out and were updated.

I'm happy with the changes overall. Can't wait for the bombs and clipped wings variant.

Yeah, I did. And it's mentioned on page 1 of the thread ;)

Still is a lot more stable at 100%.

I just feel that it's more stable at 0%, than before 2.1. Yet I can't see that it's mentioned in the patch notes.

Why not just ask YoYo if there were any changes?

Why not just ask YoYo if there were any changes?

He's welcome to reply to this thread, just like anybody else ;)

Edit; I should add that the purpose of the thread was to discern if there actually is a difference in the ground handling, or if I'm imagining things. Of course the developers could tell me if it were. I just wanted a second, or third, opinion about it, first.

Seems Yo-You settled it in th other thread, so I guess I'll post a link here for all these who might search for thread in the future:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3159903&postcount=4

Seems Yo-You settled it in th other thread, so I guess I'll post a link here for all these who might search for thread in the future:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3159903&postcount=4

:thumbup:

Wow guess my skill has really improved then, ok I can accept that!

He's welcome to reply to this thread, just like anybody else ;)

 

Edit; I should add that the purpose of the thread was to discern if there actually is a difference in the ground handling, or if I'm imagining things. Of course the developers could tell me if it were. I just wanted a second, or third, opinion about it, first.

Just have to ask that's all. :)

#4

Just have to ask that's all

That's what I did. Not YoYo, specifically, but other simmers.

So, I guess we're several people that have a collective hallucination then... ;)

So, I guess we're several people that have a collective hallucination then...

Happens just about every patch.

: )

Happens just about every patch.

: )

I guess that's why DCS is so addictive..! ;)

That's what I did. Not YoYo, specifically, but other simmers.

So, I guess we're several people that have a collective hallucination then... ;)

No, no, we just got ****ing good finally over night.

2.1 is the best patch ever :lol:

No, no, we just got ****ing good finally over night.

 

2.1 is the best patch ever :lol:

:smilewink:

Yeah let's just keep telling ourselves that...

Better ground handling could be because of the map itself.

A while ago you needed to be an ace to land on DCS grass, now in Nomandy TO & landing on grass (off runway) is smooth as butter.

Just a thought.

:dunno:

Yeah, that was discussed earlier in the thread.

It is, however, easier on NTTR concrete runways as well.

But maybe the friction of wheel/ground interaction has been adjusted, over all..?

Or, the yaw-roll coupling has been adjusted. Because this is part of what I think is better now. Earlier the Spitfire had a tendency to roll its wingtips into the ground if you weren't fast enough on the rudder pedals. This is better now, I think. Easier to counter the roll, so to speak.

I just love the way the Spit handles now! I'm having a blast in VR leaning to the sides, looking around that huge engine when taxiing, while tapping the pedals and the brakelever to keep it going where I want. :)

Did you not read what Yo-yo said? No changes have been made to the flight model of the Spitfire. You're just imagining it has because you are getting to grips with it.

Did you not read what Yo-yo said? No changes have been made to the flight model of the Spitfire. You're just imagining it has because you are getting to grips with it.

Yes, I read it. Did your read what I wrote? :)

A general adjustment of the wheel/ground friction, or a general adjustment in yaw-roll coupling, doesn't have to mean there was an adjustment to the Spitfire flightmodel, but an adjustment in the physics of DCS. Yo-Yo did write that there was some adjustment to wingtip interaction with concrete. Maybe that had some spin-off effects?

I'm tempted to back down to 2.05 and try it out... ;)

Wing tips don't exactly affect ground handling unless you are already tipped onto one.

I'd suggest that the interaction betwixt wheel and ground hasn't changed, but the fact that there is no concrete in Normandy will naturally mean an entirely different feel if you have always taken off from prepared runways in Caucasus.

My interpretation of "there have been no changes" and yours is clearly at odds. I'd suggest that a change to the way wheels interact with the ground is a change, and Yo-yo was quite unequivocal. There hasn't been a change is the way I read what he said.

The Spitfire has always handled better away from concrete, and now, we're just exclusively operating from non-concrete surfaces. Why does that mean there has to have been a change when according to the developers they haven't changed anything but wing tip interactions?

Yeah, I read his reply too. But I experienced going from successfully taking off and landing, and always with a narrow margin, maybe 20-50% of the time, to being successful every time, after I upgraded to 2.1. I was suddenly a much better Spitfire pilot :) Hence this thread, to see if others experienced the same, and it seems like some did.

And I don't exclusively operate the Spit from non-concrete surfaces. In 2.05 I flew it in the NTTR. When I installed 2.1 and Normandy, I tried the Spit Takeoff mission and my immediate thought was that it had reset the takeoff assistance to 100%. I checked and nope! Still at 0%. So I set it at 100% and it got even easier to control, like on rails. So, back to 0%. Then I thought it had to do with the surface, as you suggest. So I tried it in the NTTR again. Much better control there as well.

So, either I suddenly learned how to fly the virtual Spit, or something had changed. As I have little faith in my virtual piloting skills improving that fast, I naturally thought something had changed with the patch...

I'm just checking to see if others also experienced this. Don't read anything else into it.

Well, I can't comment on handling in Normandy, as I don't own the map. I'm sure I haven't noted any changes for easier handling on 2.1 Nevada, though. Actually, on the contrary, I'm crashing the damn thing left and right in, but that's more related to the fact that I struggle with keeping the plane on these ultra-narrow GA airstrips of "Cold start" and "takeoff" instant missions and running onto the sand ends in tears. In 1.5, with Broadway-wide runways I could get away with not being lined up correctly at all. Bad habits are be difficult to get rid of.

DCS wouldn't have needed to change the flight models at all on the WWII airplanes. It's simply that a rubber tire has a certain coefficient of friction (COF), concrete has a certain COF, and dirt, grass, and metal all have their own COF. If the COF of the tire is unchanged, the ground handling, takeoff, and landing characteristics are all going to change when you combine the tire COF with the surface COF. It's very simple math.

I always struggled with taking off in the Dora in 1.5.6 and 2.0.1 (maybe a 20-40% success rate). In Normandy, that has increased to about 95% success rate (still the same 20-40% in 1.5.6). I haven't tried the Dora in NTTR because I'm not interested in flying the Dora in Nevada.

Also, the Spitfire, Mustang, Dora,and -109 were all designed to be used on grass or dirt runways. I've been told that even today, taildraggers handle better when used on grass or dirt.

I understand that. But as I have said earlier in the thread, the groundhandling improved on concrete runways as well. For me. But it might be that some general friction or other interaction value was altered, that also altered the ground handling.

The Spitfire Mk.IX actually got reduced toe-in to reduce the wear on the left wheel during takeoff from hard runways. Earlier variants had larger toe-in to increase stability on soft runways.

Hey Guys,

My 2c worth.....

I love the Spitfire - however - the ground handling needs to be sorted IMHO.

I'm certainly no expert, but have several hundred hours RL power, including 100hrs or so tail dragging - but nothing with this horse power!. Of course, I could be missing the final 'tweak' that works for me but there's something not quite right about the MKIX takeoff run.

I do suspect that 1939 pilots with this flight model, wouldn't have survived beyond operational conversion units!!

Okay, the wheels are closer than the Mustang, for example, but the handling is light years away by comparison! No probs on T/O or landing in that one.

My issue combines 'handling' and marketing. The Spitfire may well (as it should) attract many new pilots - but if the ground handling dynamic issues aren't sorted, many pilots will end up totally disillusioned and won't use it!

Just a personal opinion, that's all......

EDIT - I do use VR, which lacks peripheral vision, this may be a contributing factor!

JCK, is this how you feel about the handling also after the 2.1 update?

I have never flown anything with this kind of power. At least not single engine ;)

But I really like how she handles post 2.1. Or, as they are telling me, as it has always have been handling. :D

Goblin - I accept that there are possibly numerous hardware tweaks that can be applied by numerous users, but 2.1 doesn't work for me.

Maybe, I have to spend a dozen hours fine tuning the Spitfire - I may be prepared to do that but there are many who won't and may miss out experiencing what was questionably the best single monoplane experience of the 20th Century!