Vietnam War - POLL - Page 16 - ED Forums
 


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View Poll Results: With the aircrafts we have, should devs focus on creating a Vietnam environment ?
Yes, it would create a new dimension to the DCS World simulator 817 86.00%
No, I prefer 3rds to still work on aircrafts, and to fly in the same old Caucasus 133 14.00%
Voters: 950. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-10-2015, 05:11 PM   #151
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A MiG-19 would be awesome, but I want the F-4 Phantom more, esp. the E model since we got the MiG-21Bis
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Old 11-10-2015, 06:44 PM   #152
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A MiG-19 would be awesome, but I want the F-4 Phantom more, esp. the E model since we got the MiG-21Bis
The Phantom would be awesome, though I would prefer the F4D, so we can have multiplayer missions where the Mig-17F can go up against a missile only Phantom. I think that would be more fun for both sides, better balanced and more challenging. The Mig-17F won't have short range or medium range missiles and the Phantom won't have a gun. I also really hope that we aren't going to use the Mig-21bis as the North Vietnamese plane of choice or any Mig-21 as the North Vietnamese ride of choice, that we get a Mig-17F & Mig-19. The North Vietnamese didn't fly the Mig-21bis during the Vietnam War and the Mig-21's they did fly weren't that common or the most representative jet for the North Vietnamese side. The Mig 17F point defense bomber interceptor was their most numerous front line point defense bomber interceptor.

It would be awesome to have multiplayer maps where players can opt for underdog planes, like the Mig-17F or F-105 Thud, without fearing being on a map where everyone else is using a F4E or Mig-21bis. I don't think it will be that fun for a Mig-17F player, to have one or several F4E's booming and zooming the Mig-17F, with an all aspect integrated cannon to make snap shots at the Mig-17F, which would be trapped like fish in a barrel. Also, consider the F-105 drivers, they would have Mig-21bis players routinely chasing down and shooting down the F-105, using a version of the Mig-21 that didn't even face the F-105, during Vietnam. The Mig-17F would be a much better historical match up the F-105 and give the F-105 players a good chance of escaping or even shooting down their opposition, which is the least we can do for the players we are also depending on to handle all the in mission ground pounding.

If we make the Vietnam match up F4E vs Mig-21bis, then, when we get on to multiplayer, it will be 20 players using the F4E , 20 players using the Mig-21bis, and Hadwell in the lone Mig17F or lone F-105 Thud. Worse, we might have missions where the North Vietnamese are using Su-27's to counter the F-15's being used by the USA and South Vietnam. It would be better to have the F4E you are hoping for than to never have an F4 in DCS at all, but if we can have an F4D instead of the F4E, all the better.

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Old 11-11-2015, 12:10 AM   #153
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I'd just really like a direct match up for the MiG-21Bis, and the F-4E fits that role perfectly

If we get MiG-17s, -19's and F-105's then I'd like the F-4D as well (which could mount a gun pod btw), but until we get those other planes I'd prefer the F-4E
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:13 AM   #154
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Old 11-11-2015, 12:53 AM   #155
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I'd love to fly an F-105 over 'Nam; seeing B-52D arclight strikes, fighting MiG-21's over Hanoi etc. That would be awesome! Also imagine the possibilities that might develop from the multi-seat engine code: imagine being able to crew an AC-130!
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Old 11-11-2015, 10:50 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by mjmorrow View Post
The Phantom would be awesome, though I would prefer the F4D, so we can have multiplayer missions where the Mig-17F can go up against a missile only Phantom. I think that would be more fun for both sides, better balanced and more challenging. The Mig-17F won't have short range or medium range missiles and the Phantom won't have a gun. I also really hope that we aren't going to use the Mig-21bis as the North Vietnamese plane of choice or any Mig-21 as the North Vietnamese ride of choice, that we get a Mig-17F & Mig-19. The North Vietnamese didn't fly the Mig-21bis during the Vietnam War and the Mig-21's they did fly weren't that common or the most representative jet for the North Vietnamese side. The Mig 17F point defense bomber interceptor was their most numerous front line point defense bomber interceptor.

It would be awesome to have multiplayer maps where players can opt for underdog planes, like the Mig-17F or F-105 Thud, without fearing being on a map where everyone else is using a F4E or Mig-21bis. I don't think it will be that fun for a Mig-17F player, to have one or several F4E's booming and zooming the Mig-17F, with an all aspect integrated cannon to make snap shots at the Mig-17F, which would be trapped like fish in a barrel. Also, consider the F-105 drivers, they would have Mig-21bis players routinely chasing down and shooting down the F-105, using a version of the Mig-21 that didn't even face the F-105, during Vietnam. The Mig-17F would be a much better historical match up the F-105 and give the F-105 players a good chance of escaping or even shooting down their opposition, which is the least we can do for the players we are also depending on to handle all the in mission ground pounding.

If we make the Vietnam match up F4E vs Mig-21bis, then, when we get on to multiplayer, it will be 20 players using the F4E , 20 players using the Mig-21bis, and Hadwell in the lone Mig17F or lone F-105 Thud. Worse, we might have missions where the North Vietnamese are using Su-27's to counter the F-15's being used by the USA and South Vietnam. It would be better to have the F4E you are hoping for than to never have an F4 in DCS at all, but if we can have an F4D instead of the F4E, all the better.

MJ


for balance reasons there can just be a retrofitted mig17f with r3 heatseakers.

pr perhaps the mig17pf which had a radar that worked along with gunsight to track targets.

I Honestly wouldn't want to fly anything other variant of the f4 other then the F4E, preferably the later F-4E with wing slat modifications it got in 1972. after all we have the mig21bis not the pfm.

F4E would also be needed since there is a possibility of 3rd party doing a Mig23.

most 3rd party developers are flexible to allow for multiple combat sceneries not just restricting tech to a certain time period or war.take the f86f for example. it has LABS and retrofitted with heatseakers. to allow for post korean combat scenerios.


the mig21bis has r60 & r60m missiles which it only recived years after its initital service date.the mig21bis may be the last production variant of the mig21, but its radar is still inferior in terms of max range, and tracking capabilities to the F4.

if im not mistaken the f4 had both air and air to ground mapping modes, and the air to air mode had like what 90km max detection range, as well as off boresight tracking/lock mode? mig21bis is still confined to a radar that only has a max range of 30km.
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Old 11-12-2015, 03:19 PM   #157
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kev2go View Post
for balance reasons there can just be a retrofitted mig17f with r3 heatseakers.
I don't think the North Vietnamese had a Mig-17F with R3 missiles. I think that they used the wing pylons for drop tanks only. Also, F-105 sim pilots ought to have a rival without missiles, to make it easier for the F-105 sim pilots to opt for dropping their load and getting away or fighting the Mig-17, without worrying about r3 missiles.

Instead of two Mig-17's, go with a Chinese Shenyang J-6. We don't have a Chinese DCS add-on, yet. As far as the Mig-21bis, the Vietnamese didn't use it, so I think a Vietnam War map should feature a Mig-17F, a Mig-19, and only a Vietnam war era Mig-21 or no Mig-21. After all, the Mig-21 wasn't that common a North Vietnamese ride, anyway. Their most numerous point defense bomber interceptor was the Mig-17. The Mig-17 was the most common Soviet made bomber interceptor in the Vietnam War and the Shenyang J-6 was the most common PRC made bomber interceptor in the Vietnam War. Worst comes to worst, we don't really need a Mig-21 to make historically plausible, challenging, and balanced missions. if we want to do a What if second US Vietnam War scenario, Blue will certainly have planes that eaoutperform the Mig-21bis.

While we may very well get a F4E, instead of the F4D, I don't think that the Mig-21bis should have any influence on the decision to have one type of DCS Phantom or the other. If we want to do a what if US Vietnam War II scenario, where the Vietnamese are now flying the Mig-21bis, Blue will certainly have planes that more than match the Mig-21bis. We are going to have a historically appropriate US rival for the Mig-21bis in DCS and that rival is awesome, the F-14. I don't think we have to fear the Mig-21bis being too uber for Blue, on a multiplayer map, any time soon.

Still, if it comes down to no DCS Phantom or having a DCS F4E, I would surely take the F4E in DCS, every time. I jsut don't want Vietnam multiplayer maps to devolve into repetitive F4E vs Mig-21bis, but maybe there are ways to work around that issue, other than the one I suggested. Kev2go, you Humingbird, and frosty, certainly all have great taste in rides.
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Last edited by mjmorrow; 11-12-2015 at 03:38 PM.
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Old 11-12-2015, 04:13 PM   #158
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Worst comes to worst, we don't really need a Mig-21 to make historically plausible, challenging, and balanced missions. if we want to do a What if second US Vietnam War scenario, Blue will certainly have planes that eaoutperform the Mig-21bis.
That depends on the era, since most of the kills were made by MiG-21 surprise attacks IIRC (or at least later on; it's been a while since I've read the relevant book). Once USAF pilots learned to avoid getting entangled into dogfights with the MiG-17's, I don't think the latter were of much danger, at least to US fighters.

What about using the MiG-21bis without radar and e.g. with 2 missiles to simulate PFM's? For the second part of the air war, MiG-21bis can be used to simulate MF's IMHO.
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Old 11-12-2015, 05:42 PM   #159
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I'd love to see a hypothetical Linebacker III scenario with the Tomcat-A thrown in.
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:29 AM   #160
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I'd love to see a hypothetical Linebacker III scenario with the Tomcat-A thrown in.
Yeah it would be like clubbing baby seals.

Might as well throw in a f15a and f16a too. Just for ***** and giggles.
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