SAITEK X65F NEW CONTROLSYSTEM

Wolfman, can you tell more about centering issue? Is it like this: stick is centered in the beginning, but eventually (while playing) the neutral position shifts?

It's too early to make a statement here. The offset is very small, so it's within a deadzone you would set anyway. The stick is sensitive mind you. Saitek also offered a solution if the centering is really a issue (some registry stuff). The point I'd criticise is that there is no button or command to recenter the stick (even more needed for the mouse stick). Feels weird for a product like this or maybe I'm making too big an issue here :smartass:.

After the pre-release-pictures people feared that you'd accidentally press the red button when operating the the left coolie-hat. Is that possible/likely?

Well it depends on the size of your hand. If you ain't got big hands you can't operate that hat with the hand remaining on the handrest anyway. You have to raise your hand a little to reach the hats (except the lower right one). If you do have big hands, then it is possible in the heat of battle... :joystick:

One thing I forgot to mention. Keep the stick in front of you and at a distance. Otherwise the LEDs under the hat might disturb you.

And one more thing. There is only one metal plate in the box to increase stability for the stick or the throttle. I'd say better use screws or screw clamps to fix both the stick and throttle on the table or your chair.

And for people thinking they won't need rudders. Think again, I at least am not able to just apply rudder without disturbing the other axes. Cause unlike an old fashioned stick, you can't see if your still holding the x and y direction still. But that's me and people might say "practise young padawan".

Cheers

I saw an X65 user's quote saying - do not use cell phones during flight! There's interference in signals, his cell phone works like an ECM device )

I saw an X65 user's quote saying - do not use cell phones during flight! There's interference in signals, his cell phone works like an ECM device )

Really?

I've been on ban warnings for expressing my concern the Saitek X-65F dual throttle does not work in Lock On FC 2 or DHS BS ... it works in the original Lock On, not in the new stuff.

The X-65F is a nice bit of kit, but in all honesty, if the current military sims that support dual throttle cant get their act together by now, then I wont be buying any future military comp sims that support dual throttle too.

Hardware or Software.

Or maybe the forthcoming TM Warthog will be supported in dual axis throttle? and the X-65F wont?

That would put the cat amongst the pigeons.

I bought into the Lock on DCS hype early, I bought into it so much I bought a dual throttle X-65F, made comments here and am close to being banned for mentioning it more than once, it works in Lock On but not Lock On FC2 or DCS BS.

My logic may be flawed, but DCS broke the dual throttle axis in DCS BS and Lock on FC2 for the X65F and they should fix it.

The X65F works fine in original Lock On.

I was threatened by a Mod here who told me I had no idea (I've still kept the PM's) despite the fact I was a Saitek beta tester.

I'm a Sim enthusiast, spending loads of my disposable income on this minority subject ... I just want to see the best we can :(

I saw an X65 user's quote saying - do not use cell phones during flight! There's interference in signals, his cell phone works like an ECM device )

Where does this stuff come from?

What utter Rubbish!

Here's my X65F unpacking, sorry its not so sinister, despite the military style boxing.

Is it safe to say the X65F combatibility with DCS Blackshark is fine? and what about A10C? I have read some conflicting post that it doesnt work with DCS BS? thanks

Hollywoody

Is it safe to say the X65F combatibility with DCS Blackshark is fine? and what about A10C? I have read some conflicting post that it doesnt work with DCS BS? thanks

 

Hollywoody

Its fine if you can live without dual throttles working, but then again Force Sensing is not really suitable for DCS BS IMHO, for this I actually use an old (but still fine) Microsoft Force Feedback 2 USB stick along with a Saitek X-52 throttle and rudders.

The X-65F dual throttle as of time of posting and fully patched up, does not work in DCS Black Shark or Lock On FC 2 (it works fine in the original Lock on) but you have to ask yourself, how often do you control each engine in Black shark? The stick works, but I find its much more suitable for fast jet sims. Of course you can lock the X-65F's throttle together and ask the sim to see one of its throttles ... but its hardly hardcore, is it :)

Same as I wish DCS would recognise individual toe brakes for all the rudder pedals that support this now.

This is much more of an issue in Lock On FC2 IMHO that simulates several twin engine Jets, its a real pity we cant use a dual throttle here, hopefully it will be patched, but from official responses so far ... I'm not holding my breath :)

Again it will be interesting to see if DCS A-10 supports the X-65F and/or the TM Warthog in dual throttle ... I'd like to think it will support both and that FC2 and BS can be supported in dual throttle HOTAS whoever the brand name is too in future patch's.

I think that's fair and be seen as constructive criticism and observations.

Cheers.

Got mine one week ago and was terrified when I pulled it out of the box, I was intimidated. I plugged it in installed the software and I was off. Had no idea what to do with it because I’ve had an X-45 for so long. It was a lion at first, but it tames very easily. This HOTAS is everything they promised and a bag of chips! Is there some things I would like different, yes but I can live with them because you can always find fault…nothing is perfect. It would be safe to say you could possibly input all of the key strokes from the “Key Command List” into this stick and still have a few buttons left over. This stick is nothing but awesome!

I saw an X65 user's quote saying - do not use cell phones during flight! There's interference in signals, his cell phone works like an ECM device )

The cable between the stick and throttle needs better shielding construction and ferrites along the length, like two or three of them. It picks up all manner of RF/EMI interference as an antenna. This PS/2 cable is unfortunately hardwired on the throttle end. Even your hand and body can change the amount of pickup it's getting and deflect the rudder axis. I suspect this is where the majority of complaints regarding centering are stemming from. If you place that cable around your back, you can usually plug the stick in (only sure calibration method: replugging) to get some level of stability in the RF/EMI pickup so that it stays that way, only wobbling a little. Pretty inexcusable considering even DJing equipment USB cables, Xbox controllers, and my old PS/2 mouse cable all have superior shielding AND at least one ferrite cylinder. A $300 controller botched by a $1 cable choice that could have been prevented with a $3 cable. It doesn't help that their calibration screen does nothing like 75% of the time. People with electronics and modding experience might want to try replacing that cable, assuming Saitek doesn't remedy this situation. It will take some effort, though. If it wasn’t hardwired, there are a few appropriate ones out there for very cheap that could just be plugged right in.

Interestingly, while I think for both jets and props this pressure sensing thing is exaggerated horsecrap, it actually does make FBW/AFCS easier to program. This is not just the case in real life (F-16 & F-22 1G AFCS roll & pitch hold are fairly simple in concept, ignoring for a moment their flight laws complexity due to their instability), but is especially true with helos. Its near-zero post-input latency makes it optimal from an Auto-trimming/Trim Update standpoint, like in EECH, Blackshark, and Comanche Gold. The effect is nearly indistinguishable from Janes Longbow Anthology and Gunship!(with proper ini config setting). The need to have a delay, dead period between reaching the desired state and recentering the stick, or reducing the sensitivity of such a feedback system is all moot with it. So that is a positive. Certainly I can understand why engineers might be tempted to use it to compensate for their inability or lack of desire to solve those sorts of problems with AFCS.

It's too early to make a statement here. The offset is very small, so it's within a deadzone you would set anyway. The stick is sensitive mind you. Saitek also offered a solution if the centering is really a issue (some registry stuff). The point I'd criticise is that there is no button or command to recenter the stick (even more needed for the mouse stick). Feels weird for a product like this or maybe I'm making too big an issue here :smartass:.

 

 

 

Well it depends on the size of your hand. If you ain't got big hands you can't operate that hat with the hand remaining on the handrest anyway. You have to raise your hand a little to reach the hats (except the lower right one). If you do have big hands, then it is possible in the heat of battle... :joystick:

 

One thing I forgot to mention. Keep the stick in front of you and at a distance. Otherwise the LEDs under the hat might disturb you.

 

And one more thing. There is only one metal plate in the box to increase stability for the stick or the throttle. I'd say better use screws or screw clamps to fix both the stick and throttle on the table or your chair.

 

And for people thinking they won't need rudders. Think again, I at least am not able to just apply rudder without disturbing the other axes. Cause unlike an old fashioned stick, you can't see if your still holding the x and y direction still. But that's me and people might say "practise young padawan".

 

Cheers

I sometimes have the top rotary set in GlovePie to mix with the twist, for when I want uncontaminated yaw.