DCS use of Pagefile

I'm hoping that someone smarter than myself can help me understand something.

When I play DCS, my typical system RAM usage is circa 10-16GB, depending upon whether I'm in single player, multiplayer and how complex the mission is.

In additional to that, DCS uses anywhere upto 8 GB of VRAM.

Lastly, and this is the bit that confuses me, I've seen Pagefile usage anywhere upto 30GB, again, depending upon complexity.

My understanding of Pagefile is that it's there as a kind of "secondary RAM", i.e. to store less important data on a temporary basis.

Why is DCS NOT using the rest of my 24GB of ram before utilising a whole bunch of Pagefile space? After all, in less complex scenarios, chances are that everything in my Pagefile could fit within my total system RAM, and I'm guessing that people with 32GB of RAM would be very happy bunnies.

Surprised that no one has any thoughts on this, as I know some of you chaps know a LOT more than I do about DCS.

I wonder if ED themselves would care to comment?

Page filing or virtual memory as it is also called was developed back in the days when ram was scarce and expensive so nobody had enough. It off loaded files from ram and was used to allow for secondary memory handling.

I disabled it a long time ago when ample ram became affordably available. With most of us having 16 and now 32 gigs of ram, page filing/virtual memory is unnecessary and slows down your system because it is much slower.

Page filing or virtual memory as it is also called was developed back in the days when ram was scarce and expensive so nobody had enough. It off loaded data from ram and was used to allow for secondary memory storage.

I disabled it a long time ago when ample ram became affordably available. With 16 and now 32 gigs of ram which don't get used, page filing/virtual memory is not needed. Also it slows down your system.

That's my understanding too. Hence my confusion that DCS is using so much, when there's free memory available. Is it the same on your system?

That's my understanding too. Hence my confusion that DCS is using so much, when there's free memory available. Is it the same on your system?

Don't confuse graphic memory with RAM. I never come close to using my 32g capacity the max I've seen is around 10g usage.

Actually I find DCS graphic intensive not RAM intensive.

Don't confuse graphic memory with RAM. I never come close to using my 32g capacity the max I've seen is around 10g usage.

Actually I find DCS graphic intensive not RAM intensive.

Yep, I get that too.

What I don't understand is why DCS would offload data to a Pagefile (whether it's the main game, or video rendering) when it has another 10GB of free RAM available.

Yep, I get that too.

What I don't understand is why DCS would offload data to a Pagefile (whether it's the main game, or video rendering) when it has another 10GB of free RAM available.

Where do you see this, is DCS using their own page file? If they are using Windows page file for the benefit of weaker systems then it can be turned off to force only RAM use.

When I look in MSI Afterburner, it gives me details on GPU usage, CPU usage (by core), RAM, VRAM and pagefile usage.

For my system, it's suggesting that I typically run quite large Pagefiles during missions, with my RAM often only half used.

I get that data that is planned to be used by VRAM is created and needs to be stored somewhere, but I don't understand why more of my free RAM isn't being used in preference.

I have 8Gigs of ram, pagefile usage is always 25+gb.

When I look in MSI Afterburner, it gives me details on GPU usage, CPU usage (by core), RAM, VRAM and pagefile usage.

For my system, it's suggesting that I typically run quite large Pagefiles during missions, with my RAM often only half used.

 

I get that data that is planned to be used by VRAM is created and needs to be stored somewhere, but I don't understand why more of my free RAM isn't being used in preference.

With 24g of RAM not being used, try to see how it performs with page file disabled, I found it to be noticeably smoother, less stutter.

Sometimes I have up to 22GB RAM in use + 30-32GB swap

it all depends on settings and missions you fly. It is more relevant HOW MUCH your system as a total consumes while it runs DCS, not how much DCS process uses alone.

disable your swap and see how far you get. That is the best explanation I have. Test it. I doubt it will work for all that DCS has to offer right now.

Here we go, a live example. Just finished a quick practice flight in my Ka50, very simple mission.

VRAM usage: 5.4GB of 8

RAM usage: 11GB of 24GB

Filepage: 18GB

In short, my video card has a good 2.5GB free, and main system RAM has another 13GB free. So what is DCS doing creating a Filepage of 18GB. Why can't it offload some of that into RAM? Surely that would reduce SSD drive usage and thus probably reduce some of the stuttering that we're getting, despite seemingly not having our GPU or CPU maxed out.

I have 8Gigs of ram, pagefile usage is always 25+gb.

Understandable with 8g of RAM.

Mr_sukebe:

Also if you are using SSD for DCS, page swap is going to do a tremendous amount of read/write which if unnecessary is bad for your SSD. Because you have sufficient RAM then turn off the page file.

Also if you are using SSD for DCS, page swap is going to do a tremendous amount of read/write which if unnecessary because you have sufficient RAM then turn off the page file.

The issue here is that I don't have enough RAM to cover ALL of the Pagefile. If DCS is creating an 18GB pagefile, then that's not going to squeeze into 10GB of free RAM. Players with 32GB might be able to do it, but certainly not myself.

The issue here is that I don't have enough RAM to cover ALL of the Pagefile. If DCS is creating an 18GB pagefile, then that's not going to squeeze into 10GB of free RAM. Players with 32GB might be able to do it, but certainly not myself.

I don't believe it works that way. For example if you allowed a 100g of page file you'd find DCS loading it up because it thinks it's doing you a favour. In reality you can't compare 10g of page file to 10g of RAM. RAM can read/write so much faster than page file bottom line is with 10g of RAM more data will be exchanged faster than in many times more page file.

I would never turn off PageFile in Windows because Windows OS is a PAGING operating system.

YMMV greatly, depending on how much RAM you have and how much you actually need.

If you get an "Out of Memory" error then you do need to turn it back on.

You can have a PF on any of your drives, Win10 picks the one that suites best currently.

You can have it on Auto and/or Fixed Size, HDD fixed, SSD Auto, whatever.

I personally would NOT turn it off in Win10.

Those articles you may find on the net about disabling PF are from OS's prior 10.

No Admin would EVER turn off a PageFile. I`d fire him.

A good rule of thumb is to have same size as physical RAM, so 16/16 , 32/32 etc..

*you should maybe read up how Win10 uses RAM and how it manages processes and RAM offloading before you turn on the clockwork ;)

SuperFetch was once a wonderful thing back a ways and it has now been phased out. I believe this too will happen with Page Filing.

Try it and see how it works for you.

As mentioned I have 32g RAM. With PF enabled I had noticeably more stutter/lagging w/o it enabled it's very smooth/quick in all applications.

Capture.JPG

Explaining how it works wouldn't be worthwhile because it's very complicated and better use microsoft docs, but you would have to understand the whole windows memory management it self.

It's also quite an effort, microsoft uses their own internal semantics and it will take you days just to understand what do they mean with "virtual", as with all large scale programming projects you would also see inconsistencies as different programmers have their own context for the same terms, this is a problem all over the place in the IT world, the piss poor naming and semantics, extremely confusing and pulled out of their butts on a raining monday afternoon, in general programmers are heavily lacking in having a rich english language department, especially the modern script kiddies that universities pump out on a conveyor belt, the generations that grown up with smartphones and sms messaging.

If you ask me for my opinion, I'm not very fond of this system at all, the reason for the pagefile is RAM scarcity, which doesn't exist anymore. The way windows memory works is that it gives programs more RAM than there is, or programs can reserve but not actually use all the "allocated" memory, and the unused reserved stuff is suppose to go to pagefile, including some inactive memory, which is ridicolous for anything other than basic secertary office use, when some of that inactive memory has to change it has to first be loaded from a slow disk which is what can make a visible stutter in a demanding high-performance program.

The only 2 reasons to have a pagefile when not using all the RAM is first that you would get more virtual room to fit "more" stuff into RAM than you would on the same environment without one. And the second is that in the even RAM runs out, it would slow down, not immediately crash, which would give you some room to save and gracefully close the program, this however only works to some extent, a few hundred MBs more and some key memory would start to get trashed and it would still crash or generate errors.

Under the hood it may seem all nice, but practical world use is minimal to the end user, pagefile on windows is highly overrated in my opinion. I've been running without one for 10 years and had no problems.

SuperFetch was once a wonderful thing back a ways and it has now been phased out. I believe this too will happen with Page Filing.

Try it and see how it works for you.

As mentioned I have 32g RAM. With PF enabled I had noticeably more stutter/lagging w/o it enabled it's very smooth/quick in all applications.

I still have superfetch on Win10 1607 Anniversary. But yes I disabled it because it's part of steps for SSD optimization.

Why should I, my system is butter smooth.

I also use VMware and sometimes I do DistributedComputing that also needs lots of RAM.

I'd be a fool to disable Paging with zero gain to expect but ask for trouble.

I just checked google again to be sure I am on par, the top 3 reviews all say, DON'T, it can only harm but will not run any better if you turn it off.

Let me explain.

Win10 does not offload closed apps but keeps them in RAM, compressed. When your RAM is full, whatever 10 decides is least needed will be moved to PageFile. You !CANNOT! stop this, it's how 10 works at it's very core. So what happens if you disable PF is that you force 10 to RESERVE ( and thus actually shorten ) some of your RAM...for PAGING. You CANNOT turn it off, you can only force it to store it in another place.

The downside is, you will eventually run out of memory while you still have free RAM, BINGO !

Don't repair watches you do not fully understand.

You may never experience issues without PF, even with 16GB only. Then you just never pushed it far enough to trigger it !

You can search lots of articles and get all the pros v. cons you want but performance talks...

As written online as well:

"Virtual memory in Windows is used in place of the physical RAM when it runs out of the usable space. Not relevant to most of the new devices as they are equipped with tons of memory, however, still a useful concept for the older machines or devices lacking enough memory."

To each their own...I enjoyed this lively debate, it's what makes this a wonderful forum!

Thanks all.

:) deja vu ?.....

My opinion ..... it's not about keeping enabled or disabling pagefile, pagefile is part of the normal process and we have no control on it. It's about virtual memory.

Usage of virtual memory is there like fitness88 said to relay ram amount when (if) it's all consummed to avoid a crash. So yes it's there for ones who have a small amount of ram in comparaison to their needs.

But it's also there to be able to save pagefiled data if a crash occures (that empty the ram and what is in ram can't be saved). So yes if pagefiled data is value you should use virtual memory with the right amount (or Bitmaster will fire you and for sake !)

For a gaming rig the only risk is a crash for "out of memory". But that would occure only if your programms use actively all of your ram, pagefiled data is deleted if ram is needed and available. Pagefile is a "trashcan" where data not actively used is stored by excess behaviour in the case it's needed once again, and so available more rapidely if so. When pagefile fills all it's allowed place the new pagefiled data erase the old, no matters if it's on hard drive or on ram.

If you actively need ram firstly the free ram will be used, than the pagefiled ram will be.

my conclusion : with 32Gb I've not ran out of memory till today - no need for virtual memory at all - my gaming rig stores pagefiled data on ram whatever the amount (with DCS or other big flight sims I'm allways on or near the full usage of my 32Gb) - but like Bitmaster said the gain is not perceptible from my experience (I didn't noticed anything ... no stutters before or after...but some said they do), and if you work on your rig I wouldn't recommand disabling virtual memory.

I've been running without one for 10 years and had no problems.

Same here.... I'm definitely pro-no pagefile. The main reason for me is all of my current and previous machines have been stocked with plenty of main RAM for the time.

Going back to the OP, Mr_sukebe, on his issues, a compromise I haven't seen much so far is to set a fixed size. If you are concerned that DCS is taking too big a chunk, just figure out a size you want to use and choose "Custom size". See the thumbnail. Set the initial and maximum to the same number and that will always be what your reserved virtual memory is. This is the method I used before I disabled it altogether.

The thing is guys, I'm guessing that I'm not alone in having this.

Have any of you checked what Pagefile is being used whilst playing DCS? If not, I'd love to get your feedback.

The thing is guys, I'm guessing that I'm not alone in having this.

Have any of you checked what Pagefile is being used whilst playing DCS? If not, I'd love to get your feedback.

Yes I looked into it and I was using a lot of Pagefile while running the 107th mission in Normandy..

here is the thread note the pics I took and the pagefile usage:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=206257