Using "throttle for GS and stick for AOA" when landing - ED Forums


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Old 03-13-2018, 09:27 PM   #19
David OC
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Originally Posted by ttaylor0024 View Post
It's a little hair raising the first few times you are in bumpy weather, but just like with using an airspeed approach you just kind of average it out. As far as corrections go on glideslope, it corrects quicker than you'd think as well.
Originally Posted by bbrz View Post
Sounds like a pretty impressive piece of equipment, your F/A-18!

The mil jets I flew decades ago didn't even have an AoA gauge and the A320 FBW system isn't very capable (and surprisingly slow!)

The more I get the F/A-18 to know the more I'm looking forward to the DCS version It's going to be interesting if the FBW works like in the real one.
Come on bbrz,

We have two Navy pilots and someone also posting detail technical theory as to why they fly the approach this way in the Navy for safety reasons (Past experience, lessons learn etc)

This is the technique the Navy spend a lot of time training on before you can even fly at the carrier, not aircraft specific, this works well on the A10 wings with less power etc.

Originally Posted by Curly View Post
It's why the navy trains pilots to respond to shear the same in a way in a turbo prop as in Hornet.
It's OK if you don't want to believe these Navy pilots or Curly's post?

If you are going to pull anything apart to disprove this method the navy teaches to ALL their pilots, Curly's technical theory post is the one to disprove the theory behind it and why it's used on ALL their aircraft.

Also neofightr's post, he list many aircraft, they all use this technique and he explains why it was much harder in these older aircraft.

There are many other IRL pilots here on the forum also bbrz, don't you think they would say something if this technique shouldn't be flow this way on jets or turbo props? and have a good detail reason as to why to not use the backside technique.

Originally Posted by Curly View Post
While flying the backside technique you apply corrections just as you would in a conventional approach. If you encounter winds you don't wait for aircraft to settle either, you actively aviate. It's just your corrections are different.

What is the corrective action when encountering a downburst. It's not just pitch. You apply full power, because pitch alone will kill you.

The backside techniques work just as well and are safer than conventional corrections for shear. Since the ability to fly a specific glide slope is determined by the power available. During a downburst the power requirement goes up because an external force is acting downwards on the craft. Using the backside technique of adding power for glide slope fixes this.

The problem with adding pitch is you trigger a dynamic response. That can exacerbate your primary issue, rapidly increasing descent rate. Lets say there is a down burst and you pull back on the stick to counter. You increase the AOA and therefore the lift coefficient, problem solved right?

Not really because you've increased drag and made your L/D ratio worse. Your now losing speed.
Since lift = .5 * Cl * air density * velocity^2 * area,

We end up with less lift, thus increasing our descent rate. Pitching further compounds the problem we slow further, losing more lift and increasing the descent rate. If we excessively pitch while adding power, your responses are nulling each other out and you don't net out a positive response that will halt the excessive sink rate..

You have more power but less lift, it's easy to doom the aircraft in this manner. That's why the only pitching you should be doing is to keep aircraft the aircraft's angle of attack stable. As the wind will be pushing the nose down.

The backside technique is safer in shear conditions because, you are responding to forces acting on the aircraft which are disrupting the flight path with opposite opposing forces immediately, rather than responding with actions that trigger a dynamic state which may or may not help you.

It's why the navy trains pilots to respond to shear the same in a way in a turbo prop as in Hornet.
Originally Posted by neofightr View Post
If you are using the stick and throttle to maintain glideslope you are doing it wrong, period regardless of platform. The stick is used for alignment to centerline and maintaining a constant AOA. That is what the pilots are doing in the videos when moving the stick, they are trying to keep that green donut lit and rock steady on the AOA indicator while using the throttle to maintain glideslope by keeping the meatball lined up with the datum lights. That's how it works, period.
What AoA Indicators Don't Do That They Should

"They're being sold as stall awareness devices when in fact, they're really performance-measuring instruments that happen to include stall warning and awareness capability. If you limit them to the latter, they're just a visual version of the stall warning horn or aural alert and that almost guarantees they won't be integrated into the pilot's understanding of what the airplane is doing."

This is also why they hold this optimal AOA and use power for GS (Hook to Deck angle) do you want to correct for this angle setting and power last second when landing?


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Last edited by David OC; 03-14-2018 at 07:12 AM.
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