Recommended gear for DCS

Hello fellow aviators! Hopefully I am doing this right! As being posted in "Sim Research" what kind joystick exactly is recommended when it comes to DCS? I considered getting the following gear in the image:

What joystick do you guys use? Feedback would be appreciated!

I use an X-56 Rhino. Works very well.

Hotas Warthog is the best imho

the warthog is great, but you have to take the return spring out to make it stop hurting your hand.

the throttle works great for planes and reversed Axis it works great as a collective for helicopters.

(pull instead of push)

Warthog's grip is nice but gimbals are rubbish. Go for Virpil or VKB, they're an entirely different planet.

There is known issue with grease, that you will have to redo after sometime. That is quite the work and a little bit dangerous. (since you can break wires, damage something etc.) The slew control on the throttle is not great either, infact I had to send a unit back when first buying it because there was an issue there.

That said I still have it and love it.

Take a look in this forum, this is actually the wrong section and you will find that topic discussed there. https://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=96

I very much disagree that the warthog is the best option nowadays. VKB or Virpil is the direction you probably want to go... only thing about that is nether has a throttle yet.

Strongly recommend Thrustmaster T.16000 (HOTAS, 2 things), very good price imo. Has a lot of buttons too.

haven't tested this, but it looks like the cheapest HOTAS (2 components, can be taken apart from each other) Thrustmaster T-Flight

The Warthog is a good setup, imho to truly make it shine get an extension for it and center mount.

I used one for years like this, however have since moved on to the boutique guys - Virpil and VKB. But I hold onto my Warthog as a backup just in case something should happen down the road.

Modded Cougar: 15 years old by now, still going strong.

I have an X56 for work and a Cougar for home. Both work fine but are different things. The X56 is a sub 200 dollar joystick on Amazon and feels like it: Relatively cheap plastics, movements are not as precise as the pricier options, switch gear is from the bargain bin, etc. The Cougar is much like the Warthog, a more expensive option and like comparing a Camry to a C63, one is twice as expensive and you feel the difference every flight. I've a feeling the Warthog would be comparatively the same way.

As far as the Eastern stuff VKB has excuses on offer but no sticks, you'll be lucky to see something for sale months from now (shows September on their site) but only if you click into their site daily and be one of the lucky few that gets a stick before both are sold. If not you can pray your one of the few that gets lucky the next time they sell a few sticks months after that. Virpil appears to me to be a decent stick but not as good as the VKB; as a significant plus your patience may be rewarded in the same calendar year making them at least theoretically available. Both lack throttles as of today although Virpil may actually be shipping theirs if you were in on the first lot pre-order. VKB says Christmas time but maybe later, I'd expect later.

I'm going to replace my Cougar with something but realistically there isn't much out there. VKB isn't even an actual functioning business; you cant order anything now and you cant even get on a list and wait. Virpil at least appears to be on the cusp of becoming a working business that has a product to sell so I'll likely go that way. To be honest I really hope Logitech does bring a product into the high(er) end space because no one is trying all that hard in it right now. They sell because buyers don't have better options to throw money at.

Seriously I'd just buy a Warthog. Other "high-end" options are totally unreliable as far as sales/fulfillment go. They either have nothing in stock or take money up front for "pre-orders" then delay shipments for months without any real explanation. So buy at your own risk. Their products are all right (I own both "high-end" sticks and their gimbals are better than warthog one, grips are matter of personal preference) but if anything goes wrong you will be looking at months of turnaround for repairs/warranty and very poor communication.

Maybe at some point Thrustmaster or Logitech or even a small, but reliable company will wake up and we will have a viable alternative.

I have the tm warthog, the saitek x-56, vkb gladiator but I use a pro flight trainer puma the most since I fly helos. I use the tm for fighter and long term travel situations the gladiator for short term travel.

The TM Warthog throttle is great. The stick may very well break your heart over time.

If you intend to use the Target software which gives the availability of up to three layers yielding easily over 100 or 2 or 3 possible different bindings then this one combo that can't be beat. (for the first year). After a year or so (approximately 1000 hours for myself), the stick can get sticky.

The T.160000M also works nicely in conjunction with the TM Hotas Warthog Throttle and you can use a button on that stick to activate an additional layer. I use it as a side stick in conjunction with the proper warthog stick for some extra buttons and at times when my stick is waiting for replacement it makes a decent stand in.

As far as sticks go, If not using the Target Software, I really have to wonder why anyone would buy such a short lifespan piece of crap. Don't get me wrong, I Love my TM stuff AND Target but that annual "ring sting" of having to buy or repair yet again is starting to get really aggravating.

If you want to see the power of the TM stuff, check out Homefries stuff. Amazing scripts.

If I was simply setting up my stick in-game instead of with Target, I wouldn't give you 2 cents for the TM stick for heavy use.

Thrustmaster put your stuff on bearings instead of plastic pins running in a plastic bore with a plastic cup and ball and a square plastic on plastic on plastic with tiny little wires running through tiny little spaces which are often stripped improperly where they may have just a couple strands out of 10 or so actually soldered. I could go on and on.

Over the years I have used the TM Wartog combo, I have had and repaired a few problems.

It can be a real bear.

The Target GUI which makes scripts without having to write code is an easy thing to learn if you've got tons of time as I do and that is the number 1 reason I will continue to stick with Thrustmaster.

3 " extension for the stick is recommended. This halves the effort required to move the stick and doubles the length of travel thereby doubling the accuracy of your gunsight. ;)

Thrustmaster Warthog Stick and throttle is a Love/Hate relationship for me.

Would I buy a third stick when this second one goes. Yeah, I would. *Hangs head*

What makes a good HOTAS is very much a matter of personal taste. Here are some things to consider, though.

Out of the box, the Warthog Throttle is excellent - the best, or one of the best. It has an excellent friction feel due to the adjustable rubber friction pads which gives a smooth stiction free movement. It has a good variety of button and knob types. I use my Warthog Throttle in every game that needs a game controller from DCS and X-Plane to Train Sim World (which doesn't support game controllers, but TARGET solves that) and everything in between. It is the basis of my entire control platform.

TARGET (for the supported Thrustmaster products - HOTAS Cougar, HOTAS Warthog, T.16000 HOTAS, and a couple others) is 2nd to none for the ability to do anything you ask it to do using relatively simple commands, or full on C programming. TARGET can even hook into Windows system calls if you really need it, and I have. For those not interested in learning to program, the TARGET GUI is as good or better than most other such programs. Half the reason I can't sim without my Warthog Throttle is because I can't sim without TARGET. In my opinion, it works much better to program the stick to match the sim, than the other way around. Most good sticks have software to do this. TARGET is just a little better than the rest.

The Warthog Stick is OK (out of the box). Good for jet sims due to the many hats and buttons. Not so good for helicopters and war birds due to a stiff spring and stiction. But if you loosen up the spring and re-grease it, for a non FFB stick, it does very well. A good Force Feedback stick is preferred for helicopters. Or in lieu of that, a loose spring on the Warthog stick (or other joystick) so you don't feel the 0 crossing detents.

Lately, I've been using a Logitech G940 Joystick. Its FFB is good enough, but sadly no comparison to the Microsoft Sidewinder FFB 2. The FFB2 is the best FFB stick period. But the FFB2 has a built in dead zone at the 0 crossing that disqualifies it for helicopters. Many people are using them and are happy with them, but when I switched to the G940 with no deadzone, I realized just how bad it was on the MS FFB2. Plus, the G940 Joystick has a good mix of buttons for a HOTAS whereas the MS FFB2 is lacking in buttons. I could use the FFB2 for war birds, but it doesn't cut it for the Blackshark where I need the buttons and hats. For jet sims, buttons matter more than FFB by a long shot.

But, you must upgrade the G940 to the latest firmware (v1.42, not v1.41!!) to get rid of the reversal bug. The latest firmware is not easy to find, though. Logitech only released it in their forums, but then when they redid the forums recently, they lost the thread. I had to find the v1.42 firmware on archive.org. With v1.42 firmware, most the issues people complained about the G940 feel (both FFB and accuracy) is solved. It gets rid of the hysteresis dead zone from the v1.41 firmware which made the F940 stick horrible. With v1.42 firmware, the G940 now passes the MS FFB2 in functionality and flying accuracy even if the FFB motors and gimbal are still not as nice.

The G940 Throttle, however, still has the reversal bug, even with the v1.42 firmware. It has a nice button setup, but is disqualified for use as a throttle (or a collective) because the reversal bug makes it useless. Plus the G940 Throttle and Stick suffer from long term reliability issues due to poor design (wires short out in the Throttle, the gimbal on the joystick isn't the strongest).

The G940 and MS FFB2 are discontinued sadly. You can only find them used.

On a budget, and looking for something you can buy new today as opposed to used on eBay, the Thrustmaster T.16000 HOTAS is both relatively cheap, well built and reliable (hall effect sensors, good mechanicals), has good feel, and works with TARGET. If it had a dual throttle, it might almost be a perfect setup (for the price). It is still the one I recommend to everyone just starting out even though the price is often just out of their budget. People often want (need) to cut corners (cost) on their first HOTAS, but better to get a middle priced good product than a low priced piece of junk.

But if cheap is a necessity, the Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas X is actually a pretty good HOTAS. But at that point, I'd rather buy a used MS FFB2 and and a Saitek Throttle Quadrant. The FFB2 is a significantly better stick even with the deadzone, and the Saitek Throttle Quadrant is very versatile, working well for multi-engine or complex engines like DCS war birds (throttle, prop pitch, mixture), as well as for a helicopter collective (with throttle). Then when you upgrade, the Throttle Quadrant is always useful for something.

You didn't mention rudder pedals. The MS FFB2, T.16000, and T.Flight X all have twist sticks which can work as a rudder. The G940 came as a set with stick, throttle, and rudder. If you fly helicopters or war birds, you really should get a rudder to maximize enjoyment and learning. Otherwise, a twist stick is probably fine for jet sims. My favorite rudder is the Saitek Proflight Combat Rudder pedals (sadly another discontinued item), because they have rounded peg pedals so you put your heals on the ground and push with the balls of your feet. This is more proper for helicopters (more sensitivity and control) vs. the type of pedal set where you put your entire foot on the pedal (which is fine for most other aircraft).

 

With v1.42 firmware, most the issues people complained about the G940 feel (both FFB and accuracy) is solved. It gets rid of the hysteresis dead zone from the v1.41 firmware which made the F940 stick horrible.

 

Are you sure about this? If so I will have to dig out my g940 stick.

Edit: wow sorry for necro.

I know nothing of your priorities , but i really like CH controls . The pluses are :

They last forever !

They have high quality switches , and plenty of them in hand (tho none on the base)

The negatives :

Some feel the 8-bit resolution inadequate , tho I do not agree .

Some find the rudder pedal rollers gritty feel objectionable .

Price-wise , you can buy all three for about the same cost or less as a Warthog Hotas

Since it is off topic, but important, regarding the Logitech G940 firmware v1.42 and what exactly it fixes, I just created a new topic about it here:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=222488

The v1.42 firmware fixes the reversal bug but only for the Stick X/Y Axis. It also improved the FFB feel as the reversal bug messes with FFB accuracy. See the above thread for details or to discuss this.

And if you look at the Official Updates thread, over 50% are THWH users.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3604630&postcount=1

Congrats to Virpil for cracking the 4% mark. Quite an achievement considering they are new player in the market!

I would say the one you can comfortable afford and use while giving you your needed inputs and personal preferences.

For DCS my first recommendation would be something better than say the hotas X, it is rather dated and not as accurate, in comparrison with something like the t16000m which would be my first recommendation.

Everything after that should honestly be various levels of luxury.

That said the Thrustmaster is these rather over hyped.

It was a top notch stick simply because nobody really made anything better.

Now there are real options, and yes shipping and buying is a bit of a pain.

And how TH insist of doing the stick backwards, in other words.

Metal on the outside, cheap plastics on the insides.

It's only redeeming factor is cost.

If you can get your hands on them both VKB and Virpil are top notch and will outlast the thrustmaster stuff. IMHO anyway..

If you can get your hands on them both VKB and Virpil are top notch and will outlast the thrustmaster stuff. IMHO anyway..

Agreed, I have a VKB Gunfighter Pro with MCG Pro grip, and a Virpil T-50 Mongoos.

Both are quite good.

Shame Virpil are discontinuing the T-50. They have the newer WarBRD which is more suited to desktop use.

If you can get your hands on them both VKB and Virpil are top notch and will outlast the thrustmaster stuff. IMHO anyway..

Looking at the build quality of my new T-50CM grip, I'm not so sure about it. Long time reliability with these new brands is mostly unknown, we will see how they fare when more people start using them.