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AWACS DL not realistic?


amalahama

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According to Chuck's

 

However, for playability purposes a Tactical datalink information exchange model is also available on a given network As an example, an AWACS can transmit on the network information about targets that are way out of your radar’s range

 

So apparently Jeff DL allows fighter-to-fighter transmissions only. It shouldn't receive contacts from AWACS. And I highly doubt that all ground based air defenses become magically visible to all nodes in the net.



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Shagrat

 

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page 141, a picture of DCS: JF-17 posted by Deka,

so it's not so credible.

 

 

:)

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I would think that’s a capability of later SD-10/PL-12, atleast that’s what I’ve seen here before

 

OP I think Chuck might just be saying that real data links are so much more complicated then one frequency and who knows how the real Link-17 works so the sim is making an approximation using what’s already there for Link-16


Edited by AeriaGloria

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page 141, a picture of DCS: JF-17 posted by Deka,

so it's not so credible.

 

 

:)

Well, I am sure it is at least as "credible" as Chuck's Guide? ;)

 

https://www.amazon.com/Pakistans-War-Machine-Encyclopedia-Strategy/dp/1986169421

 

Edit - and I guess at least some pictures are from the PAFs official public relations package...

Shagrat

 

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I don't think Air defences positions transmitted through DL is realistic though... ESM and SAM geolocation is one of the most challenging tasks ever faced by specialized SIGINT crews, a/c need to be fitted with sophisticated equipment, and definitely E-3/E-2/A-50/whatever are not.



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I don't think Air defences positions transmitted through DL is realistic though... ESM and SAM geolocation is one of the most challenging tasks ever faced by specialized SIGINT crews, a/c need to be fitted with sophisticated equipment, and definitely E-3/E-2/A-50/whatever are not.

So why HARM have a launch mode called "DL"?:D

Deka Ironwork Tester Team

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So why HARM have a launch mode called "DL"?:D

 

I don't recognize that mode, so I can't tell. What I can tell is that E-3 is not capable to geolocate accurately all ground to air defenses and transmit them via DL. Another story would be if, for example, another Jeff finds something interesting and it decides to broadcast its SPI to other flight members, but this is not how it's modeled currently in DCS.



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I don't recognize that mode, so I can't tell. What I can tell is that E-3 is not capable to geolocate accurately all ground to air defenses and transmit them via DL. Another story would be if, for example, another Jeff finds something interesting and it decides to broadcast its SPI to other flight members, but this is not how it's modeled currently in DCS.

 

US has A LOT of support aircraft in its inventory, and ESM/EW is highly classified at most countries, so U can not expect a very clear/detailed infomation on these weapon / support system.

 

A small A/C like EA-18G can geolocate a emmiter with LBI, so ESM aircraft can have similar capability with certain equipment.

 

Also triangulation/TMA can also be used to roughly locate a emmiter, just need a RWR with good angle accuracy,certain software and digital elevation map, its not that "impossible" in the RL.

 

Consider that DCS is a civil game, not all these system have/can be modelled, AWACS DL is a reasonable solution(since AWACS can get position DL from these system).

Deka Ironwork Tester Team

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I thought it was the SPJ pod that gave location of ground radars? Which is fighter to fighter stuff. Otherwise they just stick to the threat rings. Am I missing something?

 

Nope, emmiter ranging is based on SPJ only on JEFF not the DL from AWACS.

 

F-18/F-16 can see the SAM position from pre-plan threat, but it get upated once destoryed looks like the LINK16 give some contribution.

Deka Ironwork Tester Team

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US has A LOT of support aircraft in its inventory, and ESM/EW is highly classified at most countries, so U can not expect a very clear/detailed infomation on these weapon / support system.

 

A small A/C like EA-18G can geolocate a emmiter with LBI, so ESM aircraft can have similar capability with certain equipment.

 

Also triangulation/TMA can also be used to roughly locate a emmiter, just need a RWR with good angle accuracy,certain software and digital elevation map, its not that "impossible" in the RL.

 

Consider that DCS is a civil game, not all these system have/can be modelled, AWACS DL is a reasonable solution(since AWACS can get position DL from these system).

 

Could we have an option in ME to limit DL to aerial targets only? I'm sorry but I still feel uncomfortable with the God-o-vision that magically locate with pinpoint accuracy all air defences in the map



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They are detected by AWACS, not by JF-17 himself, AWACS notify JF-17 these SAM postions with datalink.

JF-17 have no reason to reject or ignore such notifications, they are real time situations, not pre-planned.

 

These informations are very critical to pilots who want to build SA, it's exact reason why datalink is installed on the plane.

 

 

If JF-17 found ground/SEA targets, these targets' locations will be sent to datalink network automatically.


Edited by L0op8ack
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Could we have an option in ME to limit DL to aerial targets only? I'm sorry but I still feel uncomfortable with the God-o-vision that magically locate with pinpoint accuracy all air defences in the map

 

You have a ground filter on HSD

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It removes all surface contacts

 

Hello.

 

Yes, the information in the HSD is removed, but in the submenu (in AA mode) it is not. That is, even if I want to use the ground filter, the infos for bering, altitude , distance, etc. do not disappear in this sub menu. Is it supposed to be like that?

 

Salute

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That is, even if I want to use the ground filter, the infos for bering, altitude , distance, etc. do not disappear in this sub menu. Is it supposed to be like that?

Salute

im not the only one with this problem then... :joystick:

if there is enough ground radars nearby, the submenu is filled with them and contains no air target information.

 

on related note, is this subpage supposed to not have NEXT/PREV buttons?

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I don't recognize that mode, so I can't tell. What I can tell is that E-3 is not capable to geolocate accurately all ground to air defenses and transmit them via DL. Another story would be if, for example, another Jeff finds something interesting and it decides to broadcast its SPI to other flight members, but this is not how it's modeled currently in DCS.

 

The E3 can readily geolocate ground emitters.

 

I offer this information on the ESM system fitted to the E3, which goes into detail about how it can detect, fixate and catalogue air, sea and land emitters.

 

This information is contributed to the common operating picture as required (which gives fighters distilled info on threat emitter locations).

 

I hope this clarifies things.


Edited by Floydii
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I don't think Air defences positions transmitted through DL is realistic though... ESM and SAM geolocation is one of the most challenging tasks ever faced by specialized SIGINT crews, a/c need to be fitted with sophisticated equipment, and definitely E-3/E-2/A-50/whatever are not.
That is by no means unrealistic. It's how datalink is supposed to work.

Datalink links ALL assets in the theatre and provides ALL information gathered through command centres or the units directly. That includes, but is not limited to: AWACS, Satellite, modern Tanks, scout helicopters, special forces guy on the ground and any aircraft that sees something and enters it into the database...

It is one of the biggest force multipliers for a good reason.

If you have time to spare, here is some public background info.

http://www.navybmr.com/study%20material/Understanding_Voice+Data_Link_Networking.pdf

Shagrat

 

- Flying Sims since 1984 -:pilotfly:

Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B  | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore)

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The E3 can readily geolocate ground emitters.

 

I offer this information on the ESM system fitted to the E3, which goes into detail about how it can detect, fixate and catalogue air, sea and land emitters.

 

This information is contributed to the common operating picture as required (which gives fighters distilled info on threat emitter locations).

 

I hope this clarifies things.

 

What's cool about JF-17 DL is that it can geolocate even not-emitting ground radars... :doh:



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