amalahama Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 According to Chuck's However, for playability purposes a Tactical datalink information exchange model is also available on a given network As an example, an AWACS can transmit on the network information about targets that are way out of your radar’s range So apparently Jeff DL allows fighter-to-fighter transmissions only. It shouldn't receive contacts from AWACS. And I highly doubt that all ground based air defenses become magically visible to all nodes in the net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0op8ack Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Ask yourself a question: why a mobile phone can not send messages to others, while all the mobile phones are connected to the same telecom network? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaHeen-1 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Hint: they can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 According to this book, it's more capable... guiding SD-10 to a defined location via D/L and terminal guidance from the missiles themselves? https://books.google.de/books?id=FGdaDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=pakistan+awacs+Datalink&source=bl&ots=oykVCeVWA7&sig=ACfU3U2z5qGzF5M9Vhul0y7NS0xqP-m4HA&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiNsKXjkdnoAhUCnVwKHWLxBnYQ6AEwC3oECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=pakistan%20awacs%20Datalink&f=false Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0op8ack Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 According to this book, it's more capable... guiding SD-10 to a defined location via D/L and terminal guidance from the missiles themselves? https://books.google.de/books?id=FGdaDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=pakistan+awacs+Datalink&source=bl&ots=oykVCeVWA7&sig=ACfU3U2z5qGzF5M9Vhul0y7NS0xqP-m4HA&hl=de&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiNsKXjkdnoAhUCnVwKHWLxBnYQ6AEwC3oECAoQAQ#v=onepage&q=pakistan%20awacs%20Datalink&f=false page 141, a picture of DCS: JF-17 posted by Deka, so it's not so credible. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) I would think that’s a capability of later SD-10/PL-12, atleast that’s what I’ve seen here before OP I think Chuck might just be saying that real data links are so much more complicated then one frequency and who knows how the real Link-17 works so the sim is making an approximation using what’s already there for Link-16 Edited April 8, 2020 by AeriaGloria Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 page 141, a picture of DCS: JF-17 posted by Deka, so it's not so credible. :)Well, I am sure it is at least as "credible" as Chuck's Guide? ;) https://www.amazon.com/Pakistans-War-Machine-Encyclopedia-Strategy/dp/1986169421 Edit - and I guess at least some pictures are from the PAFs official public relations package... Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amalahama Posted April 8, 2020 Author Share Posted April 8, 2020 I don't think Air defences positions transmitted through DL is realistic though... ESM and SAM geolocation is one of the most challenging tasks ever faced by specialized SIGINT crews, a/c need to be fitted with sophisticated equipment, and definitely E-3/E-2/A-50/whatever are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) This same book states the MWS gives direction and TTI on the HUD on page 80/81 Edited April 8, 2020 by AeriaGloria Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxwxl Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I don't think Air defences positions transmitted through DL is realistic though... ESM and SAM geolocation is one of the most challenging tasks ever faced by specialized SIGINT crews, a/c need to be fitted with sophisticated equipment, and definitely E-3/E-2/A-50/whatever are not. So why HARM have a launch mode called "DL"?:D Deka Ironwork Tester Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amalahama Posted April 9, 2020 Author Share Posted April 9, 2020 So why HARM have a launch mode called "DL"?:D I don't recognize that mode, so I can't tell. What I can tell is that E-3 is not capable to geolocate accurately all ground to air defenses and transmit them via DL. Another story would be if, for example, another Jeff finds something interesting and it decides to broadcast its SPI to other flight members, but this is not how it's modeled currently in DCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxwxl Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 I don't recognize that mode, so I can't tell. What I can tell is that E-3 is not capable to geolocate accurately all ground to air defenses and transmit them via DL. Another story would be if, for example, another Jeff finds something interesting and it decides to broadcast its SPI to other flight members, but this is not how it's modeled currently in DCS. US has A LOT of support aircraft in its inventory, and ESM/EW is highly classified at most countries, so U can not expect a very clear/detailed infomation on these weapon / support system. A small A/C like EA-18G can geolocate a emmiter with LBI, so ESM aircraft can have similar capability with certain equipment. Also triangulation/TMA can also be used to roughly locate a emmiter, just need a RWR with good angle accuracy,certain software and digital elevation map, its not that "impossible" in the RL. Consider that DCS is a civil game, not all these system have/can be modelled, AWACS DL is a reasonable solution(since AWACS can get position DL from these system). Deka Ironwork Tester Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaHeen-1 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 I thought it was the SPJ pod that gave location of ground radars? Which is fighter to fighter stuff. Otherwise they just stick to the threat rings. Am I missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxwxl Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 I thought it was the SPJ pod that gave location of ground radars? Which is fighter to fighter stuff. Otherwise they just stick to the threat rings. Am I missing something? Nope, emmiter ranging is based on SPJ only on JEFF not the DL from AWACS. F-18/F-16 can see the SAM position from pre-plan threat, but it get upated once destoryed looks like the LINK16 give some contribution. Deka Ironwork Tester Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amalahama Posted April 10, 2020 Author Share Posted April 10, 2020 US has A LOT of support aircraft in its inventory, and ESM/EW is highly classified at most countries, so U can not expect a very clear/detailed infomation on these weapon / support system. A small A/C like EA-18G can geolocate a emmiter with LBI, so ESM aircraft can have similar capability with certain equipment. Also triangulation/TMA can also be used to roughly locate a emmiter, just need a RWR with good angle accuracy,certain software and digital elevation map, its not that "impossible" in the RL. Consider that DCS is a civil game, not all these system have/can be modelled, AWACS DL is a reasonable solution(since AWACS can get position DL from these system). Could we have an option in ME to limit DL to aerial targets only? I'm sorry but I still feel uncomfortable with the God-o-vision that magically locate with pinpoint accuracy all air defences in the map Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L0op8ack Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) They are detected by AWACS, not by JF-17 himself, AWACS notify JF-17 these SAM postions with datalink. JF-17 have no reason to reject or ignore such notifications, they are real time situations, not pre-planned. These informations are very critical to pilots who want to build SA, it's exact reason why datalink is installed on the plane. If JF-17 found ground/SEA targets, these targets' locations will be sent to datalink network automatically. Edited April 10, 2020 by L0op8ack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Could we have an option in ME to limit DL to aerial targets only? I'm sorry but I still feel uncomfortable with the God-o-vision that magically locate with pinpoint accuracy all air defences in the map You have a ground filter on HSD Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaHeen-1 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 You have a ground filter on HSD Does it work? I feel I press it and it does nothing? That top left button? L1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AeriaGloria Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 Does it work? I feel I press it and it does nothing? That top left button? L1? It removes all surface contacts Black Shark Den Squadron Member: We are open to new recruits, click here to check us out or apply to join! https://blacksharkden.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robes Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 It removes all surface contacts Hello. Yes, the information in the HSD is removed, but in the submenu (in AA mode) it is not. That is, even if I want to use the ground filter, the infos for bering, altitude , distance, etc. do not disappear in this sub menu. Is it supposed to be like that? Salute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorianR666 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 That is, even if I want to use the ground filter, the infos for bering, altitude , distance, etc. do not disappear in this sub menu. Is it supposed to be like that? Salute im not the only one with this problem then... :joystick: if there is enough ground radars nearby, the submenu is filled with them and contains no air target information. on related note, is this subpage supposed to not have NEXT/PREV buttons? CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600X GPU: AMD RX 580 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaHeen-1 Posted April 10, 2020 Share Posted April 10, 2020 So I guess this is the issue I'm also having? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Floydii Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) I don't recognize that mode, so I can't tell. What I can tell is that E-3 is not capable to geolocate accurately all ground to air defenses and transmit them via DL. Another story would be if, for example, another Jeff finds something interesting and it decides to broadcast its SPI to other flight members, but this is not how it's modeled currently in DCS. The E3 can readily geolocate ground emitters. I offer this information on the ESM system fitted to the E3, which goes into detail about how it can detect, fixate and catalogue air, sea and land emitters. This information is contributed to the common operating picture as required (which gives fighters distilled info on threat emitter locations). I hope this clarifies things. Edited April 11, 2020 by Floydii Tone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 I don't think Air defences positions transmitted through DL is realistic though... ESM and SAM geolocation is one of the most challenging tasks ever faced by specialized SIGINT crews, a/c need to be fitted with sophisticated equipment, and definitely E-3/E-2/A-50/whatever are not.That is by no means unrealistic. It's how datalink is supposed to work. Datalink links ALL assets in the theatre and provides ALL information gathered through command centres or the units directly. That includes, but is not limited to: AWACS, Satellite, modern Tanks, scout helicopters, special forces guy on the ground and any aircraft that sees something and enters it into the database... It is one of the biggest force multipliers for a good reason. If you have time to spare, here is some public background info. http://www.navybmr.com/study%20material/Understanding_Voice+Data_Link_Networking.pdf Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VIRPIL CM 50 Stick & Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amalahama Posted April 11, 2020 Author Share Posted April 11, 2020 The E3 can readily geolocate ground emitters. I offer this information on the ESM system fitted to the E3, which goes into detail about how it can detect, fixate and catalogue air, sea and land emitters. This information is contributed to the common operating picture as required (which gives fighters distilled info on threat emitter locations). I hope this clarifies things. What's cool about JF-17 DL is that it can geolocate even not-emitting ground radars... :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts