Multi-crew for one huey implemented or not?

The question is not whether multi-crew is difficult or easy to implement, others already implemented it so please stop discussing this net-coding difficult thing and stop defending a company. Multi-crew is in their feature list and people bought this module due to certain features set.

 

Huey was the first module of BST. How much time passed since then. The actual problem is that it is not in their priority list. I don't think so they are working on it. They are already busy on other more prioritized projects.

 

BST has the top notch quality products, there is not a single word doubt but when it comes to communication with community they are the poorest among all the 3rd party. They don't bother to communicate, that is the said truth

The Multi-crew for MULTIPLAYER was announced as something around " we would like to do this, need to wait for ED to do it (as it wasn't even in beta back then) and we can't guarantee it will be possible ".

Then it isn't easy as has been told multiple times.

With more jet modules introducing Multiplayer Multi-crew in the near future, we may see something working for the complex rotary wing, also.

Keep in mind in the jets you have seperate cockpits whereas the helos share the same space and controls, at least partly.

I am pretty sure, it isn't just using the code from the L-39C on the Huey or Mi-8 and be done with it.

What about Gazelle SA342? Aren't they have implement long time ago and that was their first module.

What about Gazelle SA342? Aren't they have implement long time ago and that was their first module.

Though I would love to simply be able to sit in the left seat, navigate and watch for targets etc.

one of my biggest dcs wish is a fully functional multiseat capable uh-1

Multi-Crew is part of this module already. Press 1,2,3,4 to switch seats in the Huey and man multiple stations and take different roles.

 

The Multi-crew for MULTIPLAYER was announced as something around " we would like to do this, need to wait for ED to do it (as it wasn't even in beta back then) and we can't guarantee it will be possible ".

That's not true. The feature list on the DCS Huey product site always listed the following feature from the very beginning of the Hueys release a couple of years ago:

 

• Multiplayer coop mode for crew members of the same helicopter under development for a later update.
  

It clearly says multiplayer coop and it lists it as a solid feature, not some maybe feature!

I tried to explain that to you before btw: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=3436799&postcount=169

Guys, multicrewing is under ongoing development. It's difficult because a lot of code has to be rewritten, because the Huey was coded way before multicrewing was a thing. Now that ED implemented multicrew functionality, the Huey cockpit needs to be coded very differently to how it has been in the past to be able to make use of that multicrew functionality.

See this statement from Belsimtek:

Hi guys! Multicrew was one of the topics we wanted to roll out as news article, but since you are active here recently, we will address it here.

 

First of all we want to say that we don't want to run from what we said. Multicrew will be done and its progressing. Yes it taking its time and we can only be grateful for your patience!

 

Things with helicopter multicrew are not exactly same as in, for instance, L-39. It is because L-39 have two separate cockpits, therefore two clients have each their own accessible controls to fiddle with. But its changing when you have two guys at the same cockpit and both of them have access to whole cockpit, things are getting tricky that way and we tried to dance around those issues we faced. And as solution so far we see separation of available commands for pilot and co-pilot with which we are working right now.

 

As of now we have implementation for multicrew and we are testing it and resolving surfaced issues. Testing process taking its toll, it should go through different testers ours and ED..

 

At this point we think its a matter of months until multicrew patch for Huey will go live, if no critical showstopper issues will appear.

 

Besides that, there is more changes for UH-1H, that are coming even sooner... You will hear about them soon..

This should still be valid, although it might have been pushed back a bit by the work that Belsimtek spend on supporting ED with the Hornet, but that's just speculation on my part.

my multiple VR setup is waiting to have me fly the huey for a 2 or 3 man multiseat multiplayer fly and gun run..

It would be nice to have the external avionics package added that I’ve already bought

yes... it would be great to have the GPS garmin

It's nice to read, that the multiplayer multicrew for the Huey isn't dead. I do have some other modules for DCS, so it's not going to get boring, but multicrew for the Huey would be awesome. Maybe I'll try it even first in the Gazelle.

But one thing I don't get: Why is it a problem making the whole cockpit accessible for both crew? If my copilot switches off the engine while on an attack run, he's an idiot (or a mean flight instructor ;-P).

I don't own the L-39. It has two cockpit and I guess - while most of the cockpit controls are separate for each cockpit - the flight controls aren't, right? So when this works apparently for the flight controls, why doesn't it for ordinary cockpit controls?

I don't see an issue with this? But maybe one of you could enlighten me.

Thanks!

It's nice to read, that the multiplayer multicrew for the Huey isn't dead. I do have some other modules for DCS, so it's not going to get boring, but multicrew for the Huey would be awesome. Maybe I'll try it even first in the Gazelle.

 

But one thing I don't get: Why is it a problem making the whole cockpit accessible for both crew? If my copilot switches off the engine while on an attack run, he's an idiot (or a mean flight instructor ;-P).

 

I don't own the L-39. It has two cockpit and I guess - while most of the cockpit controls are separate for each cockpit - the flight controls aren't, right? So when this works apparently for the flight controls, why doesn't it for ordinary cockpit controls?

I don't see an issue with this? But maybe one of you could enlighten me.

Thanks!

Now with "Master Arm" that isn't much trouble as you can switch between the safe and off position with no impact on the weapons, but the overhead panel Main generator will be fun if accidentally "reset" and set to "off" midflight... and this is just switches, and just for the Huey.

The more complex the module is, the more important is keeping switches and systems in sync, without accidentally triggering something.

Of course it's not possible to sync two different hardware switches in two different real world locations with each other. You can work around it though, so that your hardware switch will not affect the virtual switch until you have put it in the same position as the virtual switch. It's going to be a little more inconvenient, yes, but there is really no way around it, short of both pilots having controllers with server motors that move the switches of the other player's controller.

An alternative is to only interact with the virtual cockpit with the mouse or a hand controller in VR. Then it just becomes a question of whose hand will take precedence if both players try to manipulate the same switch at once.

It's definitely doable, to make a cockpit with shared controls. Anyone saying otherwise is just making up lame excuses because it's harder to do than two separate cockpits or set of controls.

Of course it's not possible to sync two different hardware switches in two different real world locations with each other. You can work around it though, so that your hardware switch will not affect the virtual switch until you have put it in the same position as the virtual switch. It's going to be a little more inconvenient, yes, but there is really no way around it, short of both pilots having controllers with server motors that move the switches of the other player's controller.

 

An alternative is to only interact with the virtual cockpit with the mouse or a hand controller in VR. Then it just becomes a question of whose hand will take precedence if both players try to manipulate the same switch at once.

 

It's definitely doable, to make a cockpit with shared controls. Anyone saying otherwise is just making up lame excuses because it's harder to do than two separate cockpits or set of controls.

Nobody says it is not doable. It just is more complicated than in seperate cockpits.

As for the "lame excuses" feel free to show us how quickly and easy you can do this.

Oh, and just not to forget, the platform you program for is changing from time to time... 1.5 to 2.0, 2.0 to 2.2, 2.2 to 2.5 all with minor and major changes and the one or other bug...

Oh, I'm sorry if I stepped on a sore toe. My apologies.

As for the "show us how quickly I can do it myself", that's just asinine. I don't have insight or knowledge about the specific code of DCS. I don't work for DCS, and I'm not a programmer. Of course I couldn't do it quicker than someone working for ED. I do, however, possess a sense of logic and reasoning, and I have a basic understanding of programming.

But if you are not saying that it's not doable, then the statement above about lame excuses does not apply to you, logically.

Then again, if you are saying that you won't do it because it's too hard, that's a lame excuse.

I have complete sympathy for it being hard and taking time. And I am grateful for the effort being put into the module.

multicrew would be good for training, having a live instructor that can take control or correct the student when they make a mistake, not like the automated "instructor" we now have that does not correct a mistake and then falls asleep.

Then again, if you are saying that you won't do it because it's too hard, that's a lame excuse.

 

I have complete sympathy for it being hard and taking time. And I am grateful for the effort being put into the module.

That was what Belsimtek said. "It isn't that easy", " they want to do it right", "which takes time".

We all, would love to have this implemented sooner than later, but it is not a simple addition of some lines of code and a handful of key binds.

It seems that conflicting commands between the pilot and co-pilot is a problem. In RL the pilot in command PIC decides who is flying the aircraft. So what about a toggle command line (key bind) that lets the PIC or instructor decide who is in control of the aircraft, then there will be no conflicts.

As in "I have the plane". It could be set in preflight as to who will be the PIC.

...

And if you don't have your controls in the exact same configuration when the switch is made? What do you think will happen? In an emergency were no time exist to make sure your controls are in the same position? And as already been mentioned, network lag? How will it affects the flying?

It is much more than the controls to handle before you reach a functional and pleasant experience for both pilots.

I'm pretty sceptical they will ever make it. Not due to lack of effort and dedication, MAYBE due to economical implications, but most certainly due to overwhelming synchronization difficulties not in the hands of ED to solve, i.e. network, hardware, controllers...

The controls are synchronized, when the PIC moves a switch the switch on the co-pilot aircraft also moves. As I said before, only one person is in control at a time.

The controls are synchronized, when the PIC moves a switch the switch on the co-pilot aircraft also moves. As I said before, only one person is in control at a time.

So you need to ensure a smooth transition of the axis' from the cyclic and collective position of pilot 1 to worst case, a totally different position of pilot 2.

I remember the first beta tests with the L-39C and the Gazelle... Let's say it isn't that simple. ;)

The switch maybe, but not the axis.

So you need to ensure a smooth transition of the axis' from the cyclic and collective position of pilot 1 to worst case, a totally different position of pilot 2.

I remember the first beta tests with the L-39C and the Gazelle... Let's say it isn't that simple. ;)

For the axis, one way may be to use the control indicator. When you use the Huey autopilot, there are white indicators showing where the autopilot has positioned the controls in relation to your stick position. If you turn off autopilot with them far apart, you get that jarring movement you describe. Therefore, I always use the control indicator to get my controls close before turning off the autopilot.

In real life, when I hand control to my FO, I always brief that I’m going to give him control and wait until he says “standing by” before giving control. A similar procedure could be used for multi crew, where the pilot who is going to take control needs to get his controls close to yours using the indicator before you hand it over...

For the axis, one way may be to use the control indicator. When you use the Huey autopilot, there are white indicators showing where the autopilot has positioned the controls in relation to your stick position. If you turn off autopilot with them far apart, you get that jarring movement you describe. Therefore, I always use the control indicator to get my controls close before turning off the autopilot.

 

In real life, when I hand control to my FO, I always brief that I’m going to give him control and wait until he says “standing by” before giving control. A similar procedure could be used for multi crew, where the pilot who is going to take control needs to get his controls close to yours using the indicator before you hand it over...

As for the axis, of course you can use the visual reference of the controls indicator, that is how it works since introduced, but if you don't you have drastic changes of the input axis in milliseconds, which can cause interesting results.

I am sure they will implement it, I am not sure "how" the implementation will look like, or what we can, or cannot do.

What I personally miss, is the simple option, to ride the Co-Pilot (Mission commander) seat, without any interaction, but just as a navigator or instructor giving support and advice.

That should not be too hard to implement and it could bridge the time until a full blown Multi-crew for helos is developed. :dunno:

Well let’s hope it’s not like the terrain following autopilot of the 80 in the Apache I think it was no lag for reaction on then off that fast then most crashed until they gradually gave over control over 15-30 seconds iirc

 

As for the axis, of course you can use the visual reference of the controls indicator, that is how it works since introduced, but if you don't you have drastic changes of the input axis in milliseconds, which can cause interesting results.

Yup, that’s precisely what I’m advocating. It works fine when I turn off the “autopilot”, it should work fine when handing control over too. I think it’s a fairly easy issue to overcome.

Yup, that’s precisely what I’m advocating. It works fine when I turn off the “autopilot”, it should work fine when handing control over too. I think it’s a fairly easy issue to overcome.

My guess is, they want to make it right... And very speculative guess: with the Hind and Cobra in the works and the F-14 on the horizon, maybe they are working on AI Co-Pilot(s) similar to Jester AI?

Again, I would be very happy with a simple navigator / ride along seat for the time being.