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F-8 Crusader


MrDieing

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I believe they only carried a pair of Magics, whereas USN Crusaders could carry up to 4 'winders. At least, I'm unable to find any Aeronavale Crusaders with twin packs.

 

rvGMb4

 

nsUZcr

 

smZCBU

 

...I Think R.530 was tested...but not used operational by the french Crusaders...

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...I Think R.530 was tested...but not used operational by the french Crusaders...

The R.530 (both IR and SARH) was the primary missile on the french Crusaders untill 1989 when they got replaced by Magics.


Edited by QuiGon

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DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing!

 

Tornado3 small.jpg

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So the US radar could guide the sarh matra? Thats intersting.

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I don't know much about the French ones, were the radar or avionics significantly upgraded since they served much longer than the US crusaders? All that I can find is that they used magics instead of sidewinders.

 

When I was in the Med 66-67, the French F-8’s put up a good fight in a war game against our F-8’s.

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Hey, and that would go right along with our "not quite Vietnam era" Mig's, the F-5, and with the grace of ED the F-4!

 

We can pretend the war dragged into the 70's. I.e. the US decided to re-intervene in 1975. Then we can use the F14 too :)


Edited by Harlikwin

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Fingers crossed for the -8D!

 

2dae0b9bb286215fa1a8b37c25ff40a4.jpg

 

Just some insight: The F-8 was what I believe is called HDD, (heads down display) so you had some form of a ground control or station feeding you the information to the pilot on where to go, what appeared on radar, etc.

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We can pretend the war dragged into the 70's. I.e. the US decided to re-intervene in 1975. Then we can use the F14 too :)

 

From the toxic ashes of Vietnam War II...

 

If Magnitude 3 was to model both the US Navy and French Crusaders, it is the F-8J that is most similar between the two countries.

 

The US Navy F-8J was an upgraded F-8E that incorporated the design changes the US made for the French Crusaders. Those design changes included the double chord wing and bigger UHT (horizontal stabilators).

 

Good resource for that: http://tailspintopics.blogspot.com/2017/01/f8uf-8-unit-horizontal-tails.html

 

The French F-8E(FN) could and did mount AIM-9 Sidewinders (albeit rarely) and was capable of mounting 4 of them, until the capability of mounting 4 of them at a time was removed in 1986.

 

Reference: http://www.crusader.gaetanmarie.com/articles/french/part1.htm

 

The only real difference between the F-8E(FN) and F-8J externally, was an RWR mounted on the tail of US Navy F-8Js, that the French F-8E(FN) did not have.

 

You can see the missing RWR on the vertical stabilizer of the French F-8E(FN) in the picture linked below. The French F-8E(FN) is on top and a US Navy F-8J is on the bottom for reference.

 

F-8E%2B%2528FN%2529.jpg

 

30803588764_1d182233b5_b.jpg

 

The picture of the French F-8 vertical stabilizer posted earlier in this thread by Sirius is actually from an F-8P and pictured on the tail is the "SHERLOC" RWR that was part of the upgrade that led to them being designated "F-8P" instead of "F-8E(FN)".

 

SG5NPsb.jpg

 

The F-8P upgrade also consisted of:

 

-Replacement of the entire electric circuit.

-Thorough overhaul of the radar and of the flight controls.

-Installation of an ILS (Instrument Landing System).

-Installation of a Mode 4 IFF.

-New INS (Inertial Navigation System)

-New SHERLOC RWR.

-New Martin-Baker Mk.7 (0/0) seat instead of the old Mk.F5A-F (0/120).

 

Reference: http://www.ffaa.net/aircraft/crusader/crusader.htm

 

The internal differences between the F-8J and F-8E(FN), was that the F-8J used the APG-124 radar, while the F-8E(FN) used the APG-104 radar instead. The APG-104 was an upgraded version of the APG-94 used in the F-8E.

 

TLDR: You can model a period correct French Navy F-8E(FN) and a US Navy F-8J, if you simply remove the RWR receiver from the tail of a 3d model of an F-8E(FN), give the F-8E(FN) the cockpit of an F-8E with the special auto throttle installed for the French navy and give the F-8(FN) the ability to launch Matra R.550 Magic, Matra 530, and AIM-9 Sidewinder missiles. That's it.

 

This is the best idea. The best idea. Great post, let's keep our fingers crossed.

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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We are going to need a Viet Nam map

 

 

Mig 15

Mig 19

Mig 21

 

F-5

UH-1

 

 

 

Future

F-4

F-8

A-6

 

 

So much flyable content to support a map from that time period!:joystick:

We're far far away from there.... Ground units, many of AI planes, long list of airplanes and rotaries. A lot is missing. What you listed as currently in DCS I would estimate to be about 5% of what is needed. Just have a look on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_losses_of_the_Vietnam_War#USAF_fixed-wing

F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all

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Wow. Thanks for making me aware of that page. I had no idea that the air war in Vietnam was so intensive. Based on this alone, there seems to be an extremely solid case for a Vietnam map, even if the assets are added piecemeal over a decade thereafter.

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Fingers crossed for the -8D!

 

2dae0b9bb286215fa1a8b37c25ff40a4.jpg

 

Just some insight: The F-8 was what I believe is called HDD, (heads down display) so you had some form of a ground control or station feeding you the information to the pilot on where to go, what appeared on radar, etc.

 

Actually thinking about it, the F8 in many ways is very similar to the BIS we already have in terms of radar technology/employment.

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F-8J's were used in the Vietnam War. Here's a first hand account from an F-8J pilot in the Vietnam War: https://tacairnet.com/2015/04/22/the-f-8-crusader-once-scared-a-vietnamese-mig-pilot-into-ejecting-before-a-dogfight/

 

For the devs, here's a very good write up that highlights the differences between Crusader models: https://www.aerosociety.com/media/8037/an-examination-of-the-f-8-crusader-through-archival-sources.pdf

 

In my personal opinion, having a US version of the Crusader and a French one would probably move more copies, because it would add playable French Naval air into the game. Especially if the module included a period correct French carrier as well as US one (if a period correct US one doesn't become part of the sim by then).

 

That's just my take though.

 

I agree that a french version would probably bring in additional fans. Were the french ones ever used in combat of any sort?

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We are going to need a Viet Nam map

 

 

Mig 15 (not used in VN?) Yes I know its "close to a 17" but not really

Mig 19 Technically a Chinese J-6

Mig 21 (the bis is post VN)

 

F-5 (F5E is post VN)

UH-1 Yes

 

 

 

Future

F-4 (Will be an 80's era F4E)

F-8 Maybe/likely vn era

A-6 (likely 80's era version)

 

 

So much flyable content to support a map from that time period!:joystick:

 

Not to be a spoil sport, but most of the stuff in DCS is either a bit too early or a bit too late to be a good fit. The devil is in the details. But I'm sure if someone makes a VN map, all those planes and more will get flown on it.

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Here is an old training film on the radar:

 

 

Already posted :music_whistling:

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Actually thinking about it, the F8 in many ways is very similar to the BIS we already have in terms of radar technology/employment.

 

Even more like F-5, but with THE NAVY written all over it.

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Not to be a spoil sport, but most of the stuff in DCS is either a bit too early or a bit too late to be a good fit. The devil is in the details. But I'm sure if someone makes a VN map, all those planes and more will get flown on it.

 

If I can add, the Shenyang J-6s had significant power increases over the Soviet MiG-19. So, basically, we'll only have two Vietnam era aircraft; The UH-1H and the F-8.

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It won't be long before they'll have to do a 1960/70's Vietnam map for all these aircraft to play in...;)

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Although the F-4 shot down more NV planes than the F-8, the Crusader had the better kill ratio: 19/3

 

Most VN fighter were MiG-17 or 21’s.

 

We have 15, 19, and 21’s. F-4 and F-8 are coming.

 

Should be a lot of fun for both sides.

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Personally, a Late 70s/Early 80s European theater would be preferable. Or Iceland. Especially Iceland, since we're going to be getting the F-14A, as well.

 

Using US Navy F-14As' BVR to break up a formation of incoming Soviet aircraft while Aeronavale Crusaders scream in to get up close and personal.

Reformers hate him! This one weird trick found by a bush pilot will make gunfighter obsessed old farts angry at your multi-role carrier deck line up!

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