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Have the Hornet devs moved back from the Viper?


Arctander

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As in the title we have not been told that they have, and it has been 8 weeks now (iirc) since we were told they had (edit: been moved to help with the Viper)

 

Have they ALL moved back?

 

And if not, what is the backstop ED can give us (last date at which they will be working on the Viper before being moved back irrespective of Viper status).


Edited by Arctander
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Folks, how about letting the devs work as they seem fit to do what works best instead of all this remote managing from people who have no clue of the actual work? :mad:

 

great, everyone's a manager

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great, everyone's a manager

 

Funnily enough, yes I am. But I’m also a paying customer who is concerned that the product I paid for is not being worked on to the best of the companies ability.

 

As a comparison example, If had I paid money for building work, and the building work was going slowly, and my next door neighbour had building work being done that started after mine and I can see it’s the same guys, I would be asking exactly the same question, as would you. Why should ED be protected from others from answering such a straight forward and open question?


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and if you spent as much time chasing these hypothetical builders to answer your multitude of questions and constant criticisms, instead of just trusting their ability to schedule their work, for the good of all of their customers, how much faster do you think they would get the job done?

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I think its unfair to say about manager's - this is a forum and people can raise or voice their feelings/thoughts.

 

However this has been raised before in terms of concerns. I think the context to this is that people easily forget the community was told earlier this year that the F16 development would in no way affect the rollout or Early Access status of the F18. At the time i think it was fair to say a few of us rolled our eyes and thought that wouldn't be the case which has since proven to be correct.

 

It is also fair to say that since the end of July there has not really been any major advancements in the Hornet systems for early access and that is a full quarter. There are many outstanding issues and systems that need development, the TGP has had nothing more done and it is currently very basic with key features missing, even the HUD marker. We all know the key systems the hornet drivers are waiting on being TWS, AG radar, TGP completion etc.

 

The issue as i always say is ED's communication is generally very poor on milestone developments, even if they said Q3/Q4 target date for this or that system its not the time taken its the apparent lack of direction and treating paying customers like mushrooms. This was highlighted about a month ago and we got a brief statement on plans for both the hornet and the viper.

 

Whilst we are appreciative of this great simulation we should also remember that this is not BMS or community developed and given that it is payware ED should quite rightly have to communicate to their customers like any other commercial venture. It is also correct that they are brought to task when they go back on their promises or don't deliver a system.

 

Releasing the Viper has clearly annoyed some customers given the broken promise of it not impacting the Hornet. I have also noted numerous people saying that they will no longer purchase the Viper EA because its supporting ED's policy of moving on and not finishing modules, encouraging endless EA and chasing the next cash source - that said without support remember what happened to Mircoprose.....

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and if you spent as much time chasing these hypothetical builders to answer your multitude of questions and constant criticisms, instead of just trusting their ability to schedule their work, for the good of all of their customers, how much faster do you think they would get the job done?

 

People like car mechanics must love you!

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I think its unfair to say about manager's - this is a forum and people can raise or voice their feelings/thoughts.

 

However this has been raised before in terms of concerns. I think the context to this is that people easily forget the community was told earlier this year that the F16 development would in no way affect the rollout or Early Access status of the F18. At the time i think it was fair to say a few of us rolled our eyes and thought that wouldn't be the case which has since proven to be correct.

 

It is also fair to say that since the end of July there has not really been any major advancements in the Hornet systems for early access and that is a full quarter. There are many outstanding issues and systems that need development, the TGP has had nothing more done and it is currently very basic with key features missing, even the HUD marker. We all know the key systems the hornet drivers are waiting on being TWS, AG radar, TGP completion etc.

 

The issue as i always say is ED's communication is generally very poor on milestone developments, even if they said Q3/Q4 target date for this or that system its not the time taken its the apparent lack of direction and treating paying customers like mushrooms. This was highlighted about a month ago and we got a brief statement on plans for both the hornet and the viper.

 

Whilst we are appreciative of this great simulation we should also remember that this is not BMS or community developed and given that it is payware ED should quite rightly have to communicate to their customers like any other commercial venture. It is also correct that they are brought to task when they go back on their promises or don't deliver a system.

 

Releasing the Viper has clearly annoyed some customers given the broken promise of it not impacting the Hornet. I have also noted numerous people saying that they will no longer purchase the Viper EA because its supporting ED's policy of moving on and not finishing modules, encouraging endless EA and chasing the next cash source - that said without support remember what happened to Mircoprose.....

Thanks for a great response.

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and if you spent as much time chasing these hypothetical builders to answer your multitude of questions and constant criticisms, instead of just trusting their ability to schedule their work, for the good of all of their customers, how much faster do you think they would get the job done?

 

This is not about dev time - i think you have completely missed the point - its about the poor communication from both the community managers and in fairness to the top including Wags.

 

Also leaving dev's to just get on with stuff as one quote said - lol. This is about project management and communicating to the customers what their intention's are with milestone's. You know like the rest of the real world.

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Unfortunately, this thread wasn't raised as a "concern". It was a question, veiled as an expectation.

When you're unaware of the current project plan, timescales, risks, issue and so on, it really isn't a great idea to try to micro-manage another delivery team.

If you're a manager, you should know better.

 

Just let them do their jobs.

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Some people should really be barred from early access, and should wait instead until the product is feature complete. Maybe ED should really put some form of "Fit for early access?" type quiz before the option to purchase an ea module unlocks. ;)

 

Those of us who are aware what early access entails (e.g., developing new sensor tech, ground radar, updated FLIR, a slew of other things we're not aware of, etc, etc,) and don't mind waiting for it, usually enjoy what get got and happily wait until things get added.

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Some people should really be barred from early access, and should wait instead until the product is feature complete. Maybe ED should really put some form of "Fit for early access?" type quiz before the option to purchase an ea module unlocks. ;)

 

Those of us who are aware what early access entails (e.g., developing new sensor tech, ground radar, updated FLIR, a slew of other things we're not aware of, etc, etc,) and don't mind waiting for it, usually enjoy what get got and happily wait until things get added.

 

Well said.

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Unfortunately, this thread wasn't raised as a "concern". It was a question, veiled as an expectation.

When you're unaware of the current project plan, timescales, risks, issue and so on, it really isn't a great idea to try to micro-manage another delivery team.

If you're a manager, you should know better.

 

Just let them do their jobs.

 

Don't think the OP was attempting to micro manage, he was looking for clarification, equally he is not in a position to micro manage the ED dev team at any rate.

 

As for just letting them do their jobs - part of any commercial entity is to communicate with the customer, the fact that people raise such issues combined with the lack of hornet development in the last quarter and no real detailed milestone discussions from ED means that from a PR perspective they have failed aka part of their job. Luckily for them their is no competition in this sector, they have an excellent product with a devoted and loyal customer base and thus get away with their substandard communication.

 

Being critical of their Public Relations is separate from being critical of the dev team.

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it was a simple question and one that does not appear to have been answered. i would guess that as builders, even hypothetical ones, are very unlikely to indulge their customers in online forums you would be forced to engage with them face-to-face. It might be amusing to be a fly on the wall, maybe the one that they are building, if you were to employ similar tactics.

 

By the way, I don't have any problem at all getting my car fixed, probably by virtue of having a very good relationship with the managers/mechanics where i take it. I suspect that might be different however, if i constantly told them that they are rubbish at their job and how they would be better to do it.

 

As for the communications point, the vast majority of the customers appear to be happy with how ED keeps us in the loop and if they were to spend masses of time trying to improve that, to satisfy the needs of a few, more demanding customers, wouldn't that detract from the job we want them to get on with?

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Some people should really be barred from early access, and should wait instead until the product is feature complete. Maybe ED should really put some form of "Fit for early access?" type quiz before the option to purchase an ea module unlocks. ;)

 

Those of us who are aware what early access entails (e.g., developing new sensor tech, ground radar, updated FLIR, a slew of other things we're not aware of, etc, etc,) and don't mind waiting for it, usually enjoy what get got and happily wait until things get added.

 

Some people should keep away from posting in forums if they simply can’t handle that other people have other opinions on matters without immediately launching into ridiculing them.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Snappy


Edited by Snappy
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That’s as maybe.

That’s because it isn’t a concern. It’s a question, and as you say, an expectation

 

That’s because as a manager I also know about the need to communicate richly and manage stakeholders expectations.

 

I also know about the triple constraints of time, cost, and quality. Ed are working to a slowly increasing cost, a ballooning time, and a distinct scope. So what I want to know is has their time plan now exceeded tolerance? If so, what allowances are the directors making for quality ands/or scope or has the time constraint been relaxed so far as to be meaningless.

 

Now it’s very unlikely ED would share that type of information, so I’ll settle for them confirming the status of the resource and a commitment for a backstop


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Some people should keep away from posting in forums if they are simply can’t handle that other people have other opinions on matters without immediately launching into ridiculing them.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Snappy

 

+1 I totally agree with your point!

 

 

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But have the devs in the Hornet team enjoyed a complimentary company fruit basket during the weekend?

 

I wonder if the Hornet "team" made a difference for the Viper? I'm sure they were yelling and screaming being dragged away from Hornet's nest. Well, at least the SuperCarrier team put their collective foot down and they already have the champagne bottle for the shipyard launch.

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if the engineers had returned to the hornet project, we would know it. They must finish the viper radar before. So for now, we have to wait another two More weeks.

 

Which would make it 10 weeks. At what point has the team ‘helped get the Viper over the line’ enough, ED hasn’t said and I’m getting very concerned that it is an open ended move and there is no plan/expectation that they will move back in anything approaching a timescale measured in weeks, hence my request for ED to provide a commitment to time gate the deprioritisation of the Hornet avionics.

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I wonder if the Hornet "team" made a difference for the Viper? I'm sure they were yelling and screaming being dragged away from Hornet's nest. Well, at least the SuperCarrier team put their collective foot down and they already have the champagne bottle for the shipyard launch.

 

I don't know it might be different for the Super Carrier since it might not require as many systems to be built, at least I hope so. But either way if it's released soon it will make three modules in EA along side of the Hornet and Viper. we will see...

 

 

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Hmmm... you might really be a manager. That's quite the collection of "management speak" cliches you've trotted out in this thread. :smilewink:

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Hmmm... you might really be a manager. That's quite the collection of "management speak" cliches you've trotted out in this thread. :smilewink:

 

We could populate this thread with more of the same to move the discussion along: https://www.atrixnet.com/bs-generator.html

 

(all in good fun, of course)

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