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F16 joystick/HOTAS discussion


DeltaMike

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Yes, non-moving force sensing base that you can plug your Warthog stick directly into - nothing else needed.

Yeah the software is actually really good and you can adjust all sorts of stuff like offset angle (as with a sidestick you 'pull back' slightly to the side so can 'rotate;' the force sensing - 12 degrees is as per the RL F-16), force settings and even the NASA setting (so less % force to roll right compared to roll left due to muscle strength diffs).

You have 4 different options to adjust the sensitivity on the fly in 25% increments using the DMS switch after pressing your preferred 'select' combo (either CMS press or pinky+paddle).

So select then DMS down is 50%, then same and CMS up and back to 100% - really easy. Saying that you really don't need to reduce the sensitivity to fly some pretty sweet formation - you have a pad to rest your forearm on (as in the real aircraft) and you very lightly hold the stick between your thumb and forefinger and use super light pressure. Was flying some formation with an AI Mirage last night and just came up alongside and gently rested my wingtip on top of his and flew along - very easy. Obviously also with the FBW you are only tweaking the control position, not holding it in place so constant pressure is not generally needed.

 

You can have a whole bunch of stuff on top of all that too - pretty nifty piece of kit. I got used to it immediately as from racing motorcycles you really use 'pressure' on the throttle and brake lever during corning while racing, so was no big shakes to adjust to pressure flying as opposed to gross movement.

Someone on the FSSB forum also posted a great python script that beeps the same as the Gripen when approaching 80% max force, and faster beep at 100% (which actually aligned perfectly with the beep warning in the Mirage most the time) - really cool. It does beep as standard(and flash LEDs in the base) - but is hard to hear in VR with ear buds in, so the python script plays the winsound beep.

 

Sorry - wall of text lol. Can't wait for the Viper!

 

Thank you for the wall of text. I'm of that generation that can still read stuff longer than a twit or meme :thumbup:

 

I don't see a price on the site, but approximately how much are they? I see a contact sales link, so I'm assuming alot.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

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My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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Thank you for the wall of text. I'm of that generation that can still read stuff longer than a twit or meme :thumbup:

 

I don't see a price on the site, but approximately how much are they? I see a contact sales link, so I'm assuming alot.

 

No worries - you and me both lol. I can still manage to compose a selection of words longer than a few loosely compiled characters resembling words. :thumbup:

 

Yea it is rather pricey after you include the shipping, and I also got stung for import duty in NZ.

I am not going to argue Cupras point above, just leave these pictures here and people can make up their own mind. While it even still looks like the palm rest is angled forward ever so slightly compared to purely horizontal in the picture, if you " fly with a desktop or any kind of self made pit" you would absolutely need the angled adaptor to reproduce the position as per the real F-16 pit IMHO - because as you see in the picture, while the stick might look relatively vertical in the pic with relation to 'horizontal', your seat will not be angled back at 30 degrees. You can see a clear forward angle of the stick in comparison to the backrest of the seat - and subsequently your body.

 

F-16D_cockpit_at_EFKA.jpg

160407-F-IO108-009.JPG


Edited by VampireNZ

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Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE

 

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I agree Vampire, In fact I think the top pic of yours might be leant slightly left (counter clockwise from level) which makes the stick look more up-write then it is irl.

 

I found this pretty good photo here from the Omega Tau Podcast about the F-16 (Linky)

 

I popped it into photoshop and levelled the horizon which should give you a good impression of how far the stick leans forward.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=215871&stc=1&d=1566342627

 

 

My seat does actually recline to the correct F-16 lean angle (I modified it lol) and I have a seat squab insert which I can slip in to bring my knees up to the right height.

Even with the seat recline the FSSB stick feels a lot better with the F-16 angle adapter installed. Imho anyway.

ViperCockpit12.thumb.jpg.c392a8c6e958e1ed8ba9740a5ce9ed5e.jpg

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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My seat does actually recline to the correct F-16 lean angle (I modified it lol) and I have a seat squab insert which I can slip in to bring my knees up to the right height.

Even with the seat recline the FSSB stick feels a lot better with the F-16 angle adapter installed. Imho anyway.

 

Yep the rear of my seat in the Obutto rig also reclines which I actually find helpful in helping my upper arm clear the seat bolster. I have positioned the stick slightly more outboard than the OEM position to help with the bolster clearance as well - but I also find it very comfortable with the angle adaptor installed. Not really possible to angle up the seat cushion without positioning the whole seat in the rig, which will screw up my Tomcat & Huey flying.

I would highly recommend setting up a forearm rest as well if you haven't already.

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Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE

 

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n without positioning the whole seat in the rig, which will screw up my Tomcat & Huey flying.

I would highly recommend setting up a forearm rest as well if you haven't already.

 

Yep... thats my next project.

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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Thanks, not sure how I missed that. Thats actually much more reasonable than I expected.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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Thanks, not sure how I missed that. Thats actually much more reasonable than I expected.

 

Its gooooooooooooooooooooooood.. I mean its very different to a moving stick (get ready for it to feel very odd to begin with) but once it clicks its great.

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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Its gooooooooooooooooooooooood.. I mean its very different to a moving stick (get ready for it to feel very odd to begin with) but once it clicks its great.

 

Deano have you got the FreePIE profile by Viggen? It is a must-have IMHO as it gives you direct feedback as you approach your max load/force (I have it set at the default 80%) same as the standard beep you can set on the base itself, and then when you hit it. Particularly as in VR you can't really hear the beep from the unit if you wear ear buds/headphones, or see the LED's flashing. He has it set so it gives the same low beep beep as the Viggen.

 

http://www.realsimulator.com/FSSB_R3_Forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=172

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Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE

 

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Its gooooooooooooooooooooooood.. I mean its very different to a moving stick (get ready for it to feel very odd to begin with) but once it clicks its great.

 

Well I’ll probably get it soon. I have different sticks and bases already. Why not one more.

New hotness: I7 9700k 4.8ghz, 32gb ddr4, 2080ti, :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, HP Reverb (formermly CV1)

Old-N-busted: i7 4720HQ ~3.5GHZ, +32GB DDR3 + Nvidia GTX980m (4GB VRAM) :joystick: TM Warthog. TrackIR, Rift CV1 (yes really).

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Does anyone know if the stick on the F-16C Block 50 is tilted from the longitudinal axis of the plane towards the pilot at an angle of 12 degrees? As the picture shows.

 

F-16-F6.jpg

i7-8700K, Z370, 32GB DDR4-3000MHz, RTX 2080 Ti, FSSB R3L, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pro pedals, 2x MFD's, Windows 10 Pro, HP Reverb

 

DCS: F-16C, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-15C, AV-8B, M2000C, F-5E, A-10C, AJS-37, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-21bis, MiG-29, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 K-4, SA342, UH-1H

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Does anyone know if the stick on the F-16C Block 50 is tilted from the longitudinal axis of the plane towards the pilot at an angle of 12 degrees? As the picture shows.

 

 

 

No the stick isn't twisted that 12 degrees - just the force sensor axis, as early testing of the side-mounted stick discovered that generally a pilot would input a small amount of left roll while trying to pull straight back, due to the positioning of the stick. So by rotating the axis sensing 12 degrees it is easier to pull purely in pitch with no roll input.

You can set this in the FSSB base software - actually there is a slider to change the value all the way up to 180 degrees in 2 degree increments in both directions.


Edited by VampireNZ

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Samsung 950 PRO 512GB M.2 SSD | Corsair Force LE 480GB SSD | Windows 10 64-Bit | TM Warthog with FSSB R3 Lighting Base | VKB Gunfighter Pro + MCG | TM MFD's | Oculus Rift S | Jetseat FSE

 

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Thank You very much for information! I'm just building a VR F-16 cockpit with FSSB and I was wondering if the stick is twisted ;)


Edited by 13WELT_JankeS

i7-8700K, Z370, 32GB DDR4-3000MHz, RTX 2080 Ti, FSSB R3L, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pro pedals, 2x MFD's, Windows 10 Pro, HP Reverb

 

DCS: F-16C, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-15C, AV-8B, M2000C, F-5E, A-10C, AJS-37, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-21bis, MiG-29, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 K-4, SA342, UH-1H

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Thank You very much for information! I'm just building a VR F-16 cockpit with FSSB and I was wondering if the stick is twisted ;)

 

Make sure in the FSSB software that you set the BFA (Breakout Force Adjustment) to "Off" if you intend to rotate the stick input forces 12 degrees as per the real thing. For some reason the output rotation is applied AFTER the BFA is taken into account so it basically gives you a deadzone that isn't lined up with the axis properly. Its MUCH easier if you put a small deadzone in DCS controls which is basically BFA but its being added after the rotation which is the way it should be. Not sure if any of that made sense as its 1:30 AM here but have a play with it and you'll see what I mean.

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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Make sure in the FSSB software that you set the BFA (Breakout Force Adjustment) to "Off" if you intend to rotate the stick input forces 12 degrees as per the real thing. For some reason the output rotation is applied AFTER the BFA is taken into account so it basically gives you a deadzone that isn't lined up with the axis properly. Its MUCH easier if you put a small deadzone in DCS controls which is basically BFA but its being added after the rotation which is the way it should be. Not sure if any of that made sense as its 1:30 AM here but have a play with it and you'll see what I mean.

 

Thank you for the information - I will definitely check it out. I just bought the FSSB R3L and haven't even connected it yet. I'm just building the base of the joystick and I'm waiting for the F-16CJ :pilotfly: ;)

i7-8700K, Z370, 32GB DDR4-3000MHz, RTX 2080 Ti, FSSB R3L, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pro pedals, 2x MFD's, Windows 10 Pro, HP Reverb

 

DCS: F-16C, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-15C, AV-8B, M2000C, F-5E, A-10C, AJS-37, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-21bis, MiG-29, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 K-4, SA342, UH-1H

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...and I'm waiting for the F-16CJ :pilotfly: ;)

 

I Knowwwww the feeeelinggg....:bounce:

 

If you have any questions about the FSSB setup then don't hesitate to ask. :thumbup:

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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Thanks, Mate! I will not hesitate to ask if necessary ;)

i7-8700K, Z370, 32GB DDR4-3000MHz, RTX 2080 Ti, FSSB R3L, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pro pedals, 2x MFD's, Windows 10 Pro, HP Reverb

 

DCS: F-16C, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-15C, AV-8B, M2000C, F-5E, A-10C, AJS-37, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-21bis, MiG-29, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 K-4, SA342, UH-1H

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@Deano87

 

If you don’t mind I have a question

I know you are planning to put your F16 throttle on an arm replicating the f16 throttle arm.

I’m trying to do the same thing.

But doing this requires the use of a throttle rail to implement the detents.

How do you plan on implementing the idle cutoff detent?

I’m scratching my head at the moment..

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This probably isn't what you want to hear.

 

But I'm actually using a throttle rail, It has bars that go down the front and back and join up with the throttle chassis to make it self supporting.

 

It will function similarly to this, but not look exactly the same.

 

FC1000%20F-16%20Throttle%20Image%20for%20Website_p.webp

 

One thing you need to be aware of though is that the side panels on the F-16 cockpit tilt inwards by 10 degrees and the rotation axis of the throttle is also leant inwards by 10 degrees, and because of this the throttle rail ALSO needs to be leant over at 10 degrees. If you're using a throttle arm, the length of the arm or the position of the rail is CRITICAL to getting the correct angle for the throttle grip itself.

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=216052&stc=1&d=1566584775

1000_616-2.thumb.jpg.29004e258b55b01ebaa7ac5d8dce9d60.jpg

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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Thanks for the answer

Also didn’t know about the 10 degree angle, thanks for that.

 

I’m planning on using a throttle rail as well.

What I was wandering is:

Having a throttle replica arm, How can Dcs recognise when the throttle is in the cutoff position and when instead it is in the idle position?

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Thanks for the answer

Also didn’t know about the 10 degree angle, thanks for that.

 

I’m planning on using a throttle rail as well.

What I was wandering is:

Having a throttle replica arm, How can Dcs recognise when the throttle is in the cutoff position and when instead it is in the idle position?

 

Get the The Realsimulator TUSBA R2.

Using that you can set custom positions for min and max throttle and also when you bring the throttle back through the cutoff gate the TUSBA can activate a DX button, in the similar way to what the Warthog throttles do when you bring them into the cutoff position.:thumbup:

 

Its really programmable when you get into the software.

 

http://realsimulator.com/html/tusba.html

Proud owner of:

PointCTRL VR : Finger Trackers for VR -- Real Simulator : FSSB R3L Force Sensing Stick. -- Deltasim : Force Sensor WH Slew Upgrade -- Mach3Ti Ring : Real Flown Mach 3 SR-71 Titanium, made into an amazing ring.

 

My Fathers Aviation Memoirs: 50 Years of Flying Fun - From Hunter to Spitfire and back again.

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Nice setup you have... I am still thinking how to interface my throttle grip... actuality is a DX device, so no Tsuba support because no cougar hardware in it. I will have to do it the same way BMS does.. just with the throttle position without any buttons or virtual knobs and so on... No Cutuff/Button or anything like this.

DCS F-16C Blk. 40/42 :helpsmilie:

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  • 2 weeks later...

I finally attached my FSSB R3L to the chair (Playseat Airforce) - this is how it works:

 

 

It's great - I'm waiting for Viper to get used to the new aircraft with the new control ;) My serial number 139 :)


Edited by 13WELT_JankeS

i7-8700K, Z370, 32GB DDR4-3000MHz, RTX 2080 Ti, FSSB R3L, TM Warthog HOTAS, CH Pro pedals, 2x MFD's, Windows 10 Pro, HP Reverb

 

DCS: F-16C, F/A-18C, F-14B, F-15C, AV-8B, M2000C, F-5E, A-10C, AJS-37, Su-27, Su-33, MiG-21bis, MiG-29, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 K-4, SA342, UH-1H

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