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Old 08-14-2019, 01:36 PM   #21
IronMike
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Flood mode irl (at least in the Tomcat, but supposedly also in other ac) was so bad that our SMEs told us it was called the "hail mary, bad idea" -mode :-P
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:51 PM   #22
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I'm not surprised, the radar has basically lost the target at this point and we're hoping the missile can still guide in on the signal from the FLOOD horn ... which is hoping that this seeker can see the target in its FoV etc.
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Old 08-14-2019, 01:56 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
Mate it is a complete DCSism. The sparrow seeker is completely independent of the launching aircraft for anything that doesn't involve providing illumination.

It holds its own lock, performs it's own search for that signal etc.

It is perfectly capable of switching targets when they are illuminated by the same beam and they have similar enough parameters (assuming the 7 didn't throw its Doppler filter open, in which case 'everything' has similar parameters) - at short ranges the beam has plenty of energy to illuminate anything that's close enough to the beam but outside what be mathematically define as beamwidth, and of course FLOOD will illuminate an even larger volume.

It's a DCSism that you're not subject to all this. You do NOT shoot missiles into a furball period, unless your buddy is more likely to get shot down by the bandit than the risk from your own missile.

In DCS, SARH are risk-free. DCSism.
It is perfectly capable of switching targets when they are illuminated by the same beam

I guess it's this line here you need to consider. If you are talking about firing a Fox 1 into a merge at 10 miles you would be correct but that's a scenario I don't consider cos you wouldn't ever do it. You would not shoot until you can visually Id the target. At that point say 3 miles I can lock and shoot with impunity the missile can only hit the locked target. If I see a friendly cross the lock I can trash it.

On flood mode I used it once on flag at low level chasing a GR1 both of us just subsonic it was a pain and our tape was examined very carefully before they agreed it was a good shot. Yep it was a hail Mary for sure.

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Old 08-14-2019, 02:12 PM   #24
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I'll sometimes pack two Sparrows even on the F-15 in combination with AIM-120s and AIM-9s. The larger warhead on the AIM-7 provides more assurance of bringing down bigger aircraft.
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Old 08-14-2019, 03:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GGTharos View Post
Mate it is a complete DCSism. The sparrow seeker is completely independent of the launching aircraft for anything that doesn't involve providing illumination.

It holds its own lock, performs it's own search for that signal etc.

It is perfectly capable of switching targets when they are illuminated by the same beam and they have similar enough parameters (assuming the 7 didn't throw its Doppler filter open, in which case 'everything' has similar parameters) - at short ranges the beam has plenty of energy to illuminate anything that's close enough to the beam but outside what be mathematically define as beamwidth, and of course FLOOD will illuminate an even larger volume.

It's a DCSism that you're not subject to all this. You do NOT shoot missiles into a furball period, unless your buddy is more likely to get shot down by the bandit than the risk from your own missile.

In DCS, SARH are risk-free. DCSism.
I agree, and there's also the fact that most simmers expect ARH missiles to be totally independent after they go pitbull.

Our info on the AIM-54 says that it in fact can still fall-back to SARH after it transfers to Active and even if it does it will still compare the acquired target to the WCS illuminated one to confirm target selection.

I do ofc not have information on any newer missiles but I'd be surprised if stuff like that were not brought forward.

So, like you say, the fact that SARH missiles are risk free and never choose the wrong target is, imho, a DCS thing that is likely not an advantage they hold over modern ARH missiles IRL.
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Old 08-14-2019, 04:37 PM   #26
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Maybe I missed something but we were talking about shooting into a mix up with a locked target , flood would be a very brave/stupid thing to do.

As to the rest a Fox 1 into a mix up was taught in real life and I would have happily bet my and my back seaters life on it but I will not get into SARH missile mechanic for obvious reasons.

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Old 08-14-2019, 06:35 PM   #27
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It is also an academic debate to some point, what works and what does not work in real life (albeit interesting). In DCS naturally you use the missiles according to their abilities and in such a situation, in DCS, the aim7 is far preferable above any other missile. All my points I made about "why to use aim7s" were solely focused on situations in game, and have of course no relation to real life whatsoever.
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