Head / Cockpit shake level adjustment option

IN grim reapers very recent review he discusses the shake. Its suddenness and also the lack of any sounds from the plane. I cant hear the burners. I cant hear my speed or aoa. Cant get a feel for the plane at all. Cockpit going nuts ,, well it might be realistic but I dont find it immersive. I really wanted to love this plane. But in the current version I dont and Im just not flying it now :(

 

I cant help but think that there could be more indications as to what the plane is doing other than the 2 states of 1 everything ok and 2 shaking like a maniac. lol. As its still early access Im hoping this isnt the way its going to stay :)

It seems you don't have many flight hours in Tomcat, do you? It's like you're describing some other module altogether. I do hear all the sounds during buffeting, the burners. Of course you can't hear speed or AoA, just the effects it cause. Especially the effects of AoA are provided so smoothly that you can learn to feel it without even looking at the gauges, which is the goal in itself to be proficient in dogfight. There are sound/buttkickers if you want to feel more.

While it's ok for you to have an opinion or just to not like it at all I don't understand why would you want devs to change it to your taste when both SME's and DCS players love it that way and confirmed being realistic and hugely immersive?

My advice is to learn all the quirks and twists of that great airframe and practice more. Don't give up on her yet! :thumbup:

Regarding sounds in the cockpit. It can change a lot depending on where you sit (move your camera). So maybe those that cant hear much or anything of certain sounds, have moved the camera outside a given parameter?

I like draconus can hear it all, except speed. Dont have a noticeable wind speed for me (like the Hornet has and does very well). But AoA you hear along with the buffet / shaking. Afterburners I certainly hear.

Shaking doesnt bother me. Usually does though, in other titles and genres, but in the Tomcat Im not bothered with it. For me its just indicators, cause its not always just shaking, the shaking has a reason and they struck a good balance for me.

Would I mind a slider. No, why would I. Wont change anything for me, so if that is what is required for some to enjoy the Tomcat, then fine.

What puzzles me is those people saying "there's no feedback" and "the buffeting is too violent".

The buffet is the feedback... if it's too violent than you're not pitching with requisite finesse - that could just be a touch of ham-fistery on the users part (in which case practise making control deflections with much smaller and precise still displacements) or your pitch control curves need adjusting.

Further I really cannot understand that the shake could drive you to not fly - maybe, if you find yourself actually nauseated, I could see how that would put you off, in which case, that's unfortunate. Guess, I'm lucky but I find in VR it a complete non-entity.

As for sounds, I suspect some peoples sound settings are to blame as I clearly hear the burners light; as for airspeed indication through sound cues? Hey, I wouldn't mind them, if they actually occur in reality. However, it would seem non-sensical to add a gaming trope to a module that prides itself on replicating the F-4 as realistically as possible.

Can I break the wings of a Tomcat? Sure.

Haven't done it accidentally in months tho cos I take the care to know what my IAS is at all times and manage my control displacements accordingly.

Seems like a lot of people want Heatblur to make up for deficiencies in their virtual airmanship which can only be finessed by lots and lots of practise - which is true for any DCS module; difference is with the Tomcat you don't have the automated systems to protect you from yourself, hence the learning curve will be longer.

When combined with Jeseat, buffeting effects feel great in VR in a Tomcat, and "puts" you into the cockpit. Also you feel all the nuances when wings geometry change, and that kick from the gun, incredible.

As to what Victory said, the buffet seems to be correct when the cockpit shakes. The request is understandable for visual appeal, but if anyone would say (and not saying anyone has) that they can't fly the Tomcat without this feature would be dramatic as of all other past requests to HB. I have no issue with the shake because I want the real effects from the real aircraft and those real speeds. IMO, changing it decreases true immersion. But we all don't have nice latex gloves with pilot flight suits, helmets, a fully built home simulation cockpit with all of the F-14B parts, a moving cockpit based on the sim position, and etc. :P

IMO, changing it decreases true immersion.

This is why we are asking for a slider. So that everyone can be happy. For those who won't touch the slider, the experience won't change.

I fly exclusively in VR and I like the shake :D If this we’re ever implemented I would ask Heatblur to make it controllable server side for multiplayer please.

If this we’re ever implemented I would ask Heatblur to make it controllable server side for multiplayer please.

Let's stop making things more complicated for no reason please. A client side slider option would already be more than enough.

As I understand it, isn't the buffet primarily from the amount of vortex lift the plane uses?

I'm also given to understand there's still tuning work being done on the pitch behavior. I'd expect, especially for an aircraft with a high reported pitch sensitivity, that once that gets all fully nailed down, we may see less, but still quite a lot, or the vortex buffet we see now.

Also, I believe HB has started they're working through some behaviors with the DCS sound engine. I'm wondering if that's why some people are hearing buffet, and others are not? I know I'm not getting any speed noise at all, but I believe I'm hearing the wind buffet along with the plane shaking. (Seriously, I genuinely can't tell the difference between stalling and super sonic without looking at the guages.)

Last bit, I'm coming to the opinion that this aircraft needs a stick extension and nearly no joystick curve because of its range of controls. My ability to control the plane was greatly improved by adding a 20cm joystick extension and setting the response curve to linear. This plane has massive amounts of control authority, and can be extremely sensitive to inputs at the same time, and changes trim like nobody's business, so any scaling curve can put you in a bad spot in a hurry. I'm definitely getting what the FPP F-14 crews they interviewed were talking about how the F-14's low speed handling was an "acquired taste".

This is out of topic. Please feel free to create your own thread to discuss that.

They could try game mode if that works. I dunno if that would make a difference.

Prefer to leave it alone. Gives me good feedback Tomcat can be a challenge. Thats why I like it.

The current shakings, buffets, cockpit & airframe sounds are very immersive & gives me excellent feedback of what's going on. These are just outstanding with TrackIR :thumbup:.

I've never tried the F-14 in VR so I've got no idea of how it feels. But options are always good!

I love the shaking of the F-14. It gives me a very easy visual and audio indicator of when I am overstressing the airframe.

I dont understand the people talking about not being able to hear the plane. When I go into the afterburner detent, the afterburners lights on with a boom and keeps going with a rumble all the time. If only the F-18 had this. On that plane I most definitely are having trouble telling when I go into AB if it wasn't for the detent on my Virpil MT-50 throttle.

If a person is having trouble hearing the afterburners on the F-14, I would think its an issue of really low volume or headphones of poor quality.

Anyway on topic, I am against a slider for cockpit shaking and it's not just because it doesn't bother me. The shaking is how the real thing reacts. I believe that realism and accuracy should be observed whereever possible since this is supposed to be a sim. The shaking is part of the F-14 experience and should be treated as the challenge of flying that module.

Anyway on topic, I am against a slider for cockpit shaking and it's not just because it doesn't bother me. The shaking is how the real thing reacts. I believe that realism and accuracy should be observed whereever possible since this is supposed to be a sim. The shaking is part of the F-14 experience and should be treated as the challenge of flying that module.

You didn't read carefully. The subject has already been covered. The fact that the airplane is vibrating is realistic but the way it is visually modeled here in the sim isn't. It's just way overboard in amplitude and looks more like an earthquake than something you would find in a real cockpit.

It's a similar thing with the overamplified cockpit switch sounds. Heatblur like to exagerate feedback items to make sure they are easily noticed when flying. Some people may argue it makes things more convenient and more immersive, but it surely doesn't make them more realistic.

You didn't read carefully. The subject has already been covered. The fact that the airplane is vibrating is realistic but the way it is visually modeled here in the sim isn't. It's just way overboard in amplitude and looks more like an earthquake than something you would find in a real cockpit.

 

It's a similar thing with the overamplified cockpit switch sounds. Heatblur like to exagerate feedback items to make sure they are easily noticed when flying. Some people may argue it makes things more convenient and more immersive, but it surely doesn't make them more realistic.

Yes, it's been covered... by SME that buffeting is correct, specifically tuned to look as realistic as possible. So how different would you like it to be? What implementation would you like to see?

Devs already said the chance of such a slider is minimal - why are you pushing it?

It's not like cockpit switches' sounds and btw: I'm against hearing it when aircraft has engines, ECS or air running.

Devs already said the chance of such a slider is minimal - why are you pushing it?

If they don't want to implement it then that's their choice. I'm well aware I can't push anything... I just saw a few people not understanding the request that's all.

I think many people overestimate their chances in flying the Cat without the shake. You think she's hard to handle now? Just wait and see the departure rates once someone finds a way to disable the feedbacks :D

I think many people overestimate their chances in flying the Cat without the shake. You think she's hard to handle now? Just wait and see the departure rates once someone finds a way to disable the feedbacks :D

Again for 10th time, this is why I just want to tone it down, not disable it LMAO

Guys, no need to argue, right. :smilewink: Tastes and opinions are different, which is why options are great. It has been long known that argueing about tastes (or preferences) is almost always futile. We want that all sides can be happy of course, no question about that. For us, as explained above, it is just a feasability question, nothing more. If we can, please don't be disappointed if we do, if we can't, please don't be disappointed if we didn't. :)

Such an option / slider / would be a great idea

Any news about this?

Such an option / slider / would be a great idea

Any news about this?

+1

One thing I don't think I've seen mentioned is the "Head moves from G-forces" checkbox. While I imagine VR users would have this turned off, it's worth checking because I believe I've found that this feature increases the amplitude of the shaking significantly.

IN grim reapers very recent review he discusses the shake. Its suddenness and also the lack of any sounds from the plane. I cant hear the burners. I cant hear my speed or aoa. Cant get a feel for the plane at all. Cockpit going nuts ,, well it might be realistic but I dont find it immersive. I really wanted to love this plane. But in the current version I dont and Im just not flying it now :(

 

I cant help but think that there could be more indications as to what the plane is doing other than the 2 states of 1 everything ok and 2 shaking like a maniac. lol. As its still early access Im hoping this isnt the way its going to stay :)

I own a Buttkicker, bought from Amazon for about a hundred and a half. It completes the triad of realism that makes Heatblur F-14 the best module of any in DCS - the visual, the sounds, and with the help of the Buttkicker, the feel. No software needed, it works great on the '14 straight out of the box.

I suggest to anyone that feels the shake is "wrong" that it may be because two of your senses are getting a certain feedback, but the third one - feel - isn't. From rolling down the runway, to kicking on the after burners, to the shake one gets when the plane is at the edge of its envelop, the feel is just as important as the eyes and the sound.

It's kinda like VR. I've been "flying" since the before-time. Now with VR, flying is a new world and new experience. I could never go back to flat screen. Same with the "feel" now. Flying the '14 with the vibratory action coming from my chair is like flying in VR. Once you have a taste, you wonder how you ever got by without it.

Heatblur please never take the realistic shake away!!! If real pilots faced that, I want it! And by the way, it's one of the reasons why the F-14 is so exciting to fly and not a flying computer like the F/A-18, F-16. I'm not trying to put down those later planes, just stating a fact. The F-14 is a rugged thing of beauty.

And thanks for the BEST module in DCS, and I own most of them but it's the 14 that stole my heart and continues to amaze.

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Wanted to include Jabber's video on flying the f-14, it discusses the shake in detail and helped me embrace it and deal with it. Great vid.

Heatblur please never take the realistic shake away!!!

Feedback from Heatblur has only ever been in the interest of realism.

@flameoutme, everyone have different tastes

A slider with " reduce / disable " would be great