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Old 02-11-2017, 04:28 AM   #1
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Default DCS 1.5.x: Trees useless for concealment/masking against AI

Am I right in thinking that the trees in 1.5.x are fake eye-candy? They obviously have no collision model. But they do serve to obscure visibility for me, the player. Do they similarly obscure visibility for the AI as well? Or can the AI see, react, aim, and fire through trees as if they were not there? How about other players in an MP environment: what happens if I have higher tree/clutter density settings than the other guy? Can he/she see me better than I can him/her?

I guess not much of this applies for those of you who soar like the eagle ... but for the rats scurrying on the ground (e.g., Gazelle), it makes a difference!
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Old 02-11-2017, 04:31 AM   #2
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Correct, the only ones who can see the trees are humans players.
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Old 02-11-2017, 05:14 AM   #3
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New caucasus map will fix this soon


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Old 02-11-2017, 06:06 AM   #4
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Ok, that confirms it. So, hiding behind trees is comically counter-productive, like an ostrich sticking his head into the ground! LOL

Good to hear that it will be fixed in 2.5 ... another thing to look forward to in 2020 I guess

So what do you heli drivers do in the mean time for the pop up attack? Just look for bare hills?
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Old 02-11-2017, 07:37 AM   #5
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Yes, dead ground is your friend, but getting wood is no help at all!

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Old 02-11-2017, 11:28 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Bearfoot View Post
Ok, that confirms it. So, hiding behind trees is comically counter-productive, like an ostrich sticking his head into the ground! LOL

Good to hear that it will be fixed in 2.5 ... another thing to look forward to in 2020 I guess

So what do you heli drivers do in the mean time for the pop up attack? Just look for bare hills?
Avoid anything that has more weapons range than you, or fly Multiplayer dual seat and shoot in flight.
In Nevada there are a lot(!) of ridges, small gullies, crevices and riverbeds to help with cover.

Avoid Trees! Buildings block LOS for firing, but the enemy spots you the moment you pop up behind the building.

In general the AI takes longer to "spot" you if you come from behind vs. frontal assault. If the Mission Designer was so brilliant to put a group in a circle (like in the Instant action "Tank" mission), expect them to "spot" you in a couple of seconds, if you are in range.
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Old 02-12-2017, 03:36 AM   #7
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Avoid anything that has more weapons range than you, or fly Multiplayer dual seat and shoot in flight.
In Nevada there are a lot(!) of ridges, small gullies, crevices and riverbeds to help with cover.

Avoid Trees! Buildings block LOS for firing, but the enemy spots you the moment you pop up behind the building.

In general the AI takes longer to "spot" you if you come from behind vs. frontal assault. If the Mission Designer was so brilliant to put a group in a circle (like in the Instant action "Tank" mission), expect them to "spot" you in a couple of seconds, if you are in range.
Thanks! I've discovered the "come from behind" thing, too.

Caucasus has good terrain for hiding, too, but those pesky trees mean you have to pop so high for visibility that it takes to long to get into position to fire.

I've also discovered that relative missile flight time + firing accuracy is an issue. In a typical armored group (4 x BMP-3, 4 x T-72, 1 x SA-8, 1 x Shilka), it's usually the T-72's AT-10 that gets me. I can almost always either avoid the SA-8 in flight or take it out before it gets me. The BMP's are deadly with their Sagger, MG's, as is, of course the Shilka. But for some reason or another, accuracy is slow -- takes them a long time to get their aim right, long enough for me to reposition or take cover. But those T-72's: man, those things hit fast and out of nowhere. I am now trying to make it a habit to scoot instantly after a guiding in single shot if there is a T-72 in view. If I am stupid enough to try and take a second shot from the same position or linger to check out the effects of the first shot (a.k.a. gloat), then BOOOOM! I take an AT-10 in the face. If there is a T-72 in view facing me, I don't even bother taking the shot --- I just scoot!
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Old 02-12-2017, 07:48 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Bearfoot View Post
Thanks! I've discovered the "come from behind" thing, too.

Caucasus has good terrain for hiding, too, but those pesky trees mean you have to pop so high for visibility that it takes to long to get into position to fire.

I've also discovered that relative missile flight time + firing accuracy is an issue. In a typical armored group (4 x BMP-3, 4 x T-72, 1 x SA-8, 1 x Shilka), it's usually the T-72's AT-10 that gets me. I can almost always either avoid the SA-8 in flight or take it out before it gets me. The BMP's are deadly with their Sagger, MG's, as is, of course the Shilka. But for some reason or another, accuracy is slow -- takes them a long time to get their aim right, long enough for me to reposition or take cover. But those T-72's: man, those things hit fast and out of nowhere. I am now trying to make it a habit to scoot instantly after a guiding in single shot if there is a T-72 in view. If I am stupid enough to try and take a second shot from the same position or linger to check out the effects of the first shot (a.k.a. gloat), then BOOOOM! I take an AT-10 in the face. If there is a T-72 in view facing me, I don't even bother taking the shot --- I just scoot!
Yup, sniper Tanks, like IRL... wait a second?!

Honestly, in my mission design I moved on to use T-55 exclusively if helos are involved. At least until the goddamn AI gets an overhaul.
And even these bastards shoot with the main guns at you, more accurate than you would believe...
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