Red Flag - Aggressor PvP April - Page 8 - ED Forums


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Old 05-01-2017, 06:04 PM   #71
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Yeah I agree with mlbackham, organisation of the challengers side is simply not the task of the aggressor side/event organisers.

It is nice to have the planning forums, but everything beyond that is really on ourselves.

The setup was imho winnable for us. Harder then last time, because there was no need for HAVCAP on the Aggressor side but that still doesn't present a unsolvable situation.

I would be happy to at least start forging new stuff right away but for that positioning of things and map would have to be fixed like naow. Which is kinda unrealistic given the uncertainty coming with DCS patches.

I am happy to plan again as soon as the next setup is announced. If I have time at that point is a little random but yeah, generally totally up for that stuff.

For completeness sake, my last kill was with a magic2 not 530D.

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?
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Old 05-01-2017, 09:54 PM   #72
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First of all, thanks you to 104th for providing the conditions for this event, I had a lot of fun... although this time we were totally smashed by the Aggressors!

I have seen some observations of how the event developed, especially for the blue side participants, and I review myself in some of them!
I also would like to leave my input and opinion that I would like to see it taken, just as that, an opinion, nothing more!

This was my second Red Flag participation and I can clearly distinguish both events I participated. The first I participated, that took place in March, where the victory was achieved by Blue side, in my opinion for 2 reasons, organization and leadership…. yes Bushmami if you read this, I´m talking to you!
The second one, last Saturday, resembled to the normal daily activities in the 104th server, were a bunch of guys just split into a few teams, draw a basic attack plan and just went to away hopping to burst all the Reds from the sky, or at least just scare them enough to make them fly away under the their SAM umbrella.... and boy we were all wrong, extremely wrong!

Regarding GCI as far I could understand, after being shot down I went to Twitch 104th Tiger Channel and could enjoy the rigor of Red planning implementation supported by a beautifully usage of the GCI operator and its “over exceptional” advantages, that in my opinion beneficiated more the Aggressors than the Challengers .
I never had the opportunity to see the GCI being used until last Saturday and had no idea of how it look like, I truly believed that at least the "fog of war" feature would be implemented, although I found strange our CGI being so sure when he give the calls, when was possible for us, the ground attackers to go in for our runs, I was wondering how could he be so sure no opponents would be around. Having a 100% scenario picture gives a huge advantage to an already well planned tactic, even better if a team based on such air space “radar coverage” have good defending/retreat tactics and methods planned and synchronized. That was definitely an extra for the Red side as depicting of us having in our favor a 2:1 force ratio, no matter whatever we throw at them they would always have "Gods Eye" on their advantage and could evaluate when was time to escape to safe area or ambush a blue airplane group, even if all 36 blue airships flew in a huge formation, I believe they would just retreat back to the their SAM coverage and would just try to take down any lost sheep from the group, being just conservative and not going wild against a much larger enemy group... I don’t think there would be a possible or feasible tactic possible to implement that could counter the scenario arrangement combined with such CGI coverage, especially if a lot of the blue pilots are inexperienced in communications, group coordination and situation awareness, adding a rudimentary plan and the recipe for disaster is there!

I was even able to understand that during the Twitch broadcast that the A-10s, of course were neglectable, as we posed no threat to Red fighters! I suppose that only when I took down the only MBT, they possible consider the ground attackers an immediate threat to their main objectives, as I could understand from RWR warnings. As soon I took the first AGM shoot, I got locked several times and was shooting upon a few others, before the first shoot I noticed the contacts but no shots or radar locks were done at me, maybe was a coincidence… or not… and no they were not HOJ on me, as I had my Jammer off all time, as I was flying low as possible to try to sneak below their radar as I put my stakes assuming they for sure they were more interested to catch the blue fighters, pointing their radars up specialty with Mirages flying at high altitude in the area! But of course, if GCI could see it all… there goes the assumption… the mother of all ****ups!
I found also fun the nickname they give to the obvious spot where the ground attackers would pop up "The gate", rather… original ... and of course the policy of not going into the mountains chasing us, where their advantage could be reduced in our favor, and as it happen accidently. a red fighter cross the border and be disqualified!
All these things I mentioned above are simple observations done after a few minutes of watching the Red Twitch broadcasting after I was shoot down, and are pure example of how they, the Red side, carefully comply with what they stipulated for a "game plan"!
If Blue side ever want win again, a never less than similar level of planning should be implemented... of course the GCI should not be "Gods Eye" to allow the blue intentions to be camouflage a bit and give the Challengers some chance to dignify themselves as worthy opponents, otherwise in time, this will also act against the Red side as there will be no need to structure a good planning as they will feel the blue will be a bunch of uncoordinated ducks entering in line on a shooting range and Red fighters need to take place in line to take a shot! The level of the challenge will decrease, people from both side will become frustrated as the blues will feel like "cannon meat", and the red will feel humans opponents will be easier targets than fighting AI opponents... and this will eventually kill the event!
I know, maybe I'm being over dramatic on the last sentences, but is just an opinion!

Now, of course, those who did not got tiered reading until now, would say "well we have personal life, have not time to plan silly strategies”, “I just want to fly and shoot some targets around ", "This guy talks too much why doesn’t he make a game plane?",etc, etc...
Well, unfortunately due to my professional life I can’t belong to a virtual squadron, I work 28/28 days rotations and I can’t compromise with a squadron agenda and commitments, when I´m at home not only family life, but also other hobbies and pass times consume all of my off time.
Regarding general mission planning, I don’t feel yet confident enough to dominate all aspects or at least all the main air battle planning aspects, although I have considerable online flying hours on several servers, I consider myself extremely "noob" on these types of more organized events that I believe require a bit extra knowledge!
What I can do, is when I´m able to participate on such events, is to try to help on building a "game plan" involving the ground attackers together with experienced fighter pilots that can design a main battle plan.
I strongly believe is possible to give some fight to the Reds by making them leaving from their comfort zone and make them sweat a bit more!

These were just some thoughts and opinions, should not be seeing as open simple tear down critics or complains , I enjoyed a lot participating on such kind of event and give my time as well spent, I just think is possible to improve it and make it even better and more enjoyable for all the community!

See you all in the air after June… I´m off to work for the next 4 weeks…
Good flights!

Last edited by M@verick; 05-02-2017 at 06:52 AM. Reason: Speling. Correction
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Old 05-02-2017, 03:07 AM   #73
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Hi Folks,
This was an awesome event from my perspective (even though I was pretty useless) and I just wanted to thank the organisers and participants and offer one or two comments.

1) Got up at 3.40am for this and cost me some points with the wife but no regrets at all. My first time participating in red flag, or indeed any DCS tournament. Thank you very much 104th for organising and the participants. For a "headline" event like this I think you're spot on for prioritising stability vs features("real" GCI). And obviously you're time is on a volunteer basis so thank you very much for this.

2) Obviously blue side organisation was lacking compared to red, and it always will be. Looks like microvax and blackam are looking into this which is great. I'm personally very happy to follow orders/suggestions from GCI/squadran leader. But here are a couple of suggestions that might make blue a little better

a) Add some brief teamspeak usage guidelines/recommendations in the Red Flag advertisement/briefing. I saw there were 8 challanger TS groups but wasn't sure which to join? Didn't want to intefere with any established squadrons. I was also unsure if I was allowed to talk to GCI since he was in his own TS group, and with 36 other pilots obviously we can't all talk at once. Should I have done a whisper group just for GCI? Is the protocol to talk with the squadron leader first? Is there a squadran leader? etc. As a noob last thing I wanted to do was get in the way of others.

b) Also in the briefing maybe publish a proposed briefing timeline. e.g. as a rough guide, in reality things will merge but at least the rough intention is there. Perhaps this is too formal/disciplined, but doing anything in DCS requires a fair amount of discipline! e.g maybe something like this:
17:40 - public briefing for red and blue
17:45 - join server, check loadouts
17:50 - blue team(challanger) only briefing, form TS squadrons.
17:55 - comms check.
18:00 - Permission to start engines.

3) I thought happy did a great job as GCI and his communication was very clear. He must have been a busy guy!! Even with the god view I do hope a human GCI stays as without that I assume there is even more chaos... I did get confused when happy asked group one to hold at the mountains, but then our lead just kept flying on. Maybe there was a comms issue.

Anyhow, please take my comments from the perspective of someone doing their first red flag. And I would be super keen to particiapte again just as it is now. Absolutely fantastic hearing all the accents of folks from around the world, amazing time we live in where we have the technology to do this.

Andrew (wandy)
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Old 05-02-2017, 04:01 AM   #74
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There's more brevity and coordination between randoms in 2 mins of blue flag then the 2hr twitch broadcast I put on when I went to bed last night.

I expected way more from something like this.

It was like the general chat room of aerobatics online during peak hours.

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Old 05-02-2017, 07:18 AM   #75
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Are we any closer to having dedicated GCI sign up slots? Or are we still testing the viability of GCI in the events before committing?

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Old 05-02-2017, 12:09 PM   #76
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Thanks for hosting guys!

Looking forward to the next one
[100☭] holimoli #13, 100-й КИАП
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Old 05-03-2017, 07:36 AM   #77
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All the Action from RED FLAG 2017-4 from RED F-15 cockpit.
The stream was with 5min delay.

I want to thank and to congratulate all the participant of the event. GF everyone S!
and a great thank to people were following the stream.


"Failure Is Not An Option" "Μολών λαβέ"
Online Combat Simulation Since 1997
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:09 AM   #78
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It was a great event but next time I will be the Air Commander, in fact we dont need a GCI when you have AWACS, because the AWACS tell you where the enemy is, what is needed is someone who knows about strategic and aerial tactics to command groups of aircrafts.

Last edited by JunMcKill; 05-04-2017 at 12:28 AM.
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