A different vote thread. Modern fixed wing.

so we've argued with ED in russian section about the reasons why they don't release modern fixed wing aircraft for Red Side

and their arguments have been transforming from "that's because they're classified" to "there's no demand for them in the west"

I'd like to do a different type of vote - let's imagine those planes aren't classified and ED (or third parties) ARE ABLE to bring them to DCS-level (ASM+AFM/PFM). what would you pick ?

The vote is not fair. I have a bias to the F-16 and will always choose it over others, but I would love Mig-29, SU-27 over many other. Hell and fully modeled SU-25 (original) is more interesting to me than an F-14/F-4/ F-111/ A-6, etc.

there's no demand for them in the west

two things:

1/ there's a degree of self fulfilling prophesy about that statement.

Tell everyone they can't have an Su-27 variant for security reasons often enough, they'll stop asking for it or voting for it because they've already been told they can't have it.

2/ Even if you were to accept that more people in the states that want an F-16 than an Su-27 derivative (& I accept that there are a lot of unwell people out there :)) if in the same way the L-39 can be swapped between versions in the ME, players could swap between an Su-27S(/SK/SKM/SM ?) and a J-11A(B?), you would presumably drag in Western, Russian and Chinese players which as collective market I imagine would make the module development worthy - and that last market is being actively targeted by E.D.

Also - if E.D. keep just doing 60's / 70's Red and 90's / 00s Blue, eventually the whole '"modern Combat" combat side of things falls down...

Red needs a viable plane as an opponent to the F-18

At minimum a more realistic GCI system, and some MiG-29 variant would even things up a bit.

Any of an 'A', 'G' or 'S' couldn't really put the Russian Govt offside, given that the West had access to the MiG-29G from Germany, and bought 6 MiG-29S from Moldovia for evaluation.

Nothing "secret" about their capabilities now...

Edit:

"... & another thing !...":)

These forums are a self selecting group of fanatics (try running a poll to see how many of them think MP more important than SP ?).

Among those people, the F-16 is a very desirable aircraft because of its multi-role capabilities ($ I suspect for many because they have fond memories of flying it in another SIM).

In the wide world outside of Simming, the Su-27 is a legendary (& probably slightly mythologized / misunderstood ) plane.

I suspect if would sell a lot better than the self-reporting of people on this forum would indicate...

some MiG-29 variant would even things up a bit.

Any of an 'A', 'G' or 'S' couldn't really put the Russian Govt offside, given that the West had access to the MiG-29G from Germany, and bought 6 MiG-29S from Moldovia for evaluation.

Nothing "secret" about their capabilities now...

Also in service in Bulgaria, Poland, Slovakia, and formerly in the Chech Republic, Hungary and Romania, all of which are members of NATO, so yea there's definitely little secrecy around the Mig29 now.

Anyway on topic, in the short term I'd prefer a red plane so I voted for the Mig29, but really I'd be happy with anything from that list!

I'd love to see the 29 and the 27 made full modules just so I can have exceptional enemies to encounter.

Beyond that, Id rather ED work on a dynamic campaign, ATC, etc.

A6 Intruder: Vietnam era, carrier ops in the Gulf of Tonkin. About time someone does that.

so we've argued with ED in russian section about the reasons why they don't release modern fixed wing aircraft for Red Side

 

and their arguments have been transforming from "that's because they're classified" to "there's no demand for them in the west"

About those arguments - the first one has merits, while the latter is complete BS.

I'd like to do a different type of vote - let's imagine those planes aren't classified and ED (or third parties) ARE ABLE to bring them to DCS-level (ASM+AFM/PFM). what would you pick ?

If we "imagine those planes aren't classified", then why this inconsistency..

"Su-30(any version)"

"MiG-29A/S"

..in the poll options?. An Su-30K may be doable in the same way as a "MiG-29A/S", while an Su-30SM would be just as improbable as a MiG-29K.

The f-111 was the first ac i was assigned to out of tech school loved the beast look at what it did for kadofi in the 80s redecorated his palace

full fidelity su-25 please

Mig-29 would be the perfect module to give the Red side a full fidelity fighter for the Persian Gulf theatre versus the Hornet and Tomcat.

I think having one is pretty crucial, and as much as I want to see the F-16 in DCS, I'd unselfishly chose a Mig-29 be developed first over it bc I think it's that critical of a piece for DCS and the MP community.

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I don't like your poll... :( I've picked F-16 which I what I'd want most. BUT... I don't want ED to develop that next. For the long term good of the game they need to do a full fidelity Redfor plane.

They're not available, so what exactly is the point of this? Russian developers will always have an insurmountable hurdle when it comes to intellectual rights of Russian equipment. Get used to it.

Mig-29 would be the perfect module to give the Red side a full fidelity fighter for the Persian Gulf theatre versus the Hornet and Tomcat.

 

I think having one is pretty crucial, and as much as I want to see the F-16 in DCS, I'd unselfishly chose a Mig-29 be developed first over it bc I think it's that critical of a piece for DCS and the MP community.

 

Yes, and I really want to be the bad guy for some reason on the red side.:)

I do agree about the F-16, guess ED is waiting for it to really be worth all the work, I'm in if they build it. ED, if you build it they will come, You hope;)

.

We're already getting the F-16, so I don't believe it should have been included. Make no mistake, I'm looking forward to it, and it will be a Day Zero purchase. Anyway, while I am fond of western jets (F-16 and F-4 are among my top 5 favourite aircraft), Red NEEDS a capable strike-fighter to counter the F/A-18, F-16 and F-4. The airframe that trumps any interest in western aircraft, in my own humble opinion, is the Su-27 and its extended family.

Because of the new technologies being developed in some of our incoming modules (particularly two-seater AI and AG radar) I elected to vote for an Su-30 - on the proviso the variant they offered is able to use guided weapons (missiles AND bombs), anti-radiation missiles AND is all-weather day/night.

When it's all said and done, BLUFOR will have 3 all-weather/SEAD and supersonic capable strike fighters. The reds have nothing all-weather and their most potent strike platform is the Su-25T. An Su-30 won't tip the scales but it WILL even the odds.

I'd totally love modern Russian aircraft, I voted Su-30. IF any version were actually an option, I'd obviously go for the Su-30MKI and MKK (and sub-variants; MKA/MKM/SM/SM1; MK2/MK3), but I could probably even settle for an Su-30M or Su-30K.

By the way, which variant is the one we have in DCS? I'd go for Su-30MKK, except it only has 10 pylons. As far as I know, the only Su-30s with multi-role and R-77 had 12 pylons.

Mig-29 would be the perfect module to give the Red side a full fidelity fighter for the Persian Gulf theatre versus the Hornet and Tomcat.

 

I think having one is pretty crucial, and as much as I want to see the F-16 in DCS, I'd unselfishly chose a Mig-29 be developed first over it bc I think it's that critical of a piece for DCS and the MP community.

 

 

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Points well made, Sir.

I too would love to have any of those other Western aircraft listed in this poll and would buy them in an instant.

However, for the greater good of DCS long term/ broader community engagement/ play balance etc., it would be great to have a few Red aircraft if possible.

We're already getting the F-16, so I don't believe it should have been included. Make no mistake, I'm looking forward to it, and it will be a Day Zero purchase. Anyway, while I am fond of western jets (F-16 and F-4 are among my top 5 favourite aircraft), Red NEEDS a capable strike-fighter to counter the F/A-18, F-16 and F-4. The airframe that trumps any interest in western aircraft, in my own humble opinion, is the Su-27 and its extended family.

 

Because of the new technologies being developed in some of our incoming modules (particularly two-seater AI and AG radar) I elected to vote for an Su-30 - on the proviso the variant they offered is able to use guided weapons (missiles AND bombs), anti-radiation missiles AND is all-weather day/night.

 

When it's all said and done, BLUFOR will have 3 all-weather/SEAD and supersonic capable strike fighters. The reds have nothing all-weather and their most potent strike platform is the Su-25T. An Su-30 won't tip the scales but it WILL even the odds.

Agreed, Its just a matter of time an F-16 module comes to DCS. So it should had been excluded from this poll. I also agree that there is a greater need for more Russian jets that are as modern as possible. Maybe some of the the export versions of the Mig-29 and SU-27. By the way the F-4 Phantom will already have its arch nemesis from Vietnam the Mig-21.

Agreed, Its just a matter of time an F-16 module comes to DCS. So it should had been excluded from this poll. I also agree that there is a greater need for more Russian jets that are as modern as possible. Maybe some of the the export versions of the Mig-29 and SU-27. By the way the F-4 Phantom will already have its arch nemesis from Vietnam the Mig-21.

Truth be told, the F-4 came up against more MiG-19s than MiG-21s over Vietnam but they were certainly the 'flagship' fighters for both sides.

I don't understand the urge for an F-16 either... You will be getting an aircraft with almost the same systems, the same weapons and slightly different flight performance to the Hornet with no carrier ops.

Besides one being launched on a carrier and the other one from an airfield, the way they are used in combat is pretty much the same, is it not ?

Okay, make a module of it... whatever, just don't make it a priority. It will probably take another 2-3 years to make anyway, unless work has already been done.

Russian aircraft are much needed.

I'm not up on all the details, so this question may be completely irrelevant. That said, if the Russian aircraft are classified, what about export variants?

Accidentally voted before picking all the things. I would be delighted to have a full fidelity version of any of the MiGs or Sukhois. :thumbup:

I'd love the 29 & 27 in game and would buy them in a second but I can't not vote for the F-16 since it's in the poll.

I'd love the 29 & 27 in game and would buy them in a second but I can't not vote for the F-16 since it's in the poll.

Bit pointless voting for the F-16, considering we're already getting one from ED.

I voted F-16 :megalol: F-15E would be my second choice.

Voted MiG29 for same reasons as others mentioned, especially a semi modern version, would make a good multirole counterweight to the F18s etc.

Also like others I'm not sure why F16 was even included, since it's pretty widely accepted to already be on the way...

@neil (I think)

They ARE available, at least to an extent. I get everybody can't hound the forums and keep up with the latest drama, but yeah, it's because of projected sales figures, not 'classification' or 'availability'. That's why this is suddenly surging into the fore