DCS and Pimax

hi guys im running a pimax 4k , have been for about 2 years, i read on the pimax forums that pitool works with the 4k as previously we had to use piplay. anyway since installing pitool i had really bad pc performance overall and wasn't sure what was going on untill my good friend remotely connected to my pc and found that pi.service was eating all my available ssd space until it was at around 500mb and the pc blue screened. after noticing that i uninstalled pitool and my pc is fixed.

long story short is anyone else having issues like this with pimax software.

With recent update of SteamVR, the compatibility and set resolution for P5k+ in SteamVR seems to be fixed and editing of the profile.json is no longer needed (?).

Also I experienced better continuously performance, when deactivating smart smoothing in Pitool.

@frogger

I think the 4k and Piplay is another story, than 5k/8k and Pitool - I wouldn´t expect much feedback on the issue here, as the 4k is not very popular, but maybe there could be answers found on Piplay in the Pimax forums.

Edit later this evening:

Seems that Pitool is not needed at all. Still got Pitool installed, but unchecked the "Start Pitool at Windows startup" and didn´t execute it anyway. With SteamVR only the P5k+ runs fine, probably better in the first impression.

So I´ve now set in Pitool everything to default and unchecked except "use lighthouse tracking" and didn´t execute Pitool again. Have set the render resolution with SteamVR / DCS PD only.

I actual find my PIMX 5K PLUS runs better without steamvr. I am currently using pitools render of 2.0 and in-game pd of 1.5 and it's awesome

Edit later this evening:

Seems that Pitool is not needed at all. Still got Pitool installed, but unchecked the "Start Pitool at Windows startup" and didn´t execute it anyway. With SteamVR only the P5k+ runs fine, probably better in the first impression.

.

For me that's placebo, because this in neither SteamVR or Pitool that are making the rendering and tracking work, but the Pitool service that is running in background.

You could see Pitool as a GUI to setup parameter for this service.

SteamVR is doing nothing except setting SS so use it one time to setup your config and forget it, as it may eat a lot of CPU.

For me Pitool is needed in order to check the status of the tracking (it always take some time to start), and also the current settings. As I used IL2BOS (PP and no SS) and DCS (no PP and SS), I need to know the current Pitool config before launching the sim.

´Placebo´ is a different thing, but totally agree to everything else.

I would say, there´s no need for the Pitool GUI and its setup parameters, but the hardwaredrivers included with the Pitool installation package is in anyway needed to run the HMD.

But the lighthouse tracking could be also detected via SteamVR only, without Pitool executed, what was new to me.

I would think that SteamVR - not executed, but running in background - is needed as the API to make the Pimax drivers run with DCS as an OpenVR application... but finally couldn´t confirm if this is truly the case, as I didn´t uninstalled Steam/SteamVR from my system.

What I´ve observed yesterday, was, that with SteamVR running in the background and Pitool executed with its smart smoothing activated, there were some random stutter, in the first seconds in a DCS cockpit, but without executed Pitool the refresh rate was more stable - didn´t run fpsVR at this time to detect the frametime and fps figures in particular , but perceived a difference in anyway.

Also the P5k+ is now correctly identified and noted by SteamVR, what was not the case some time ago, beside the automatic adjusted resolution with the newest SteamVR update as 2560 x 1616 without the execution or editing of Pitool.

So my conclusion is, that with recent updates of SteamVR, the P5k+ is much better supported by SteamVR.

I´ll try next time to activate smart smoothing by SteamVR instead through Pitool, let´s see if this works too. I would expect that everything would run more smoothly through one application instead of two mixed applications.

@Montrose

Oh yeah, at your set render resolution, the image quality is really awesome and perfect in sharpness and clarity, but with the performance of my system, I couldn´t reach your settings without a massive loss in frametime/fps at least while flying close to the ground.

edit: @lefenuste Ah, yeah, you mean the parallel projection to be activated through Pitool to make it run with IL2 ...

I´ll try next time to activate smart smoothing by SteamVR instead through Pitool, let´s see if this works too. I would expect that everything would run more smoothly through one application instead of two mixed applications.

I'm curious to have your numbers when your will have done more testing.

As rendering is done by he Pimax process, that would means that just tracking with Pitool would have an impact, but finally, who knows with this kind of staked software ?

Nevertheless, steamVR is taking a lot of CPU in my PC, so I wont use it untill you prove that it had some added value.

I feel the same about this software mixture of Pitool and SteamVR...

Would be interesting to see how things work out, when shutting down some running/ background running apps through the windows task manager.

This week I´m very busy and off for some days from wednesday on, but surely will write here about some more testing with the newest SteamVR version.

So far I would say, that the lighthouse tracking could work without using Pitool, as it is anyway Valves/SteamVR´s technology.

Also I assume, that asynchrounious reprojection is also done by SteamVR only and not by Pitool.

So far I understood Pitool´s smart smoothing as an addition to SteamVR´s reprojection and smoothens the 3DOF headmovement only, but not cutting the FPS into half as it is done by reprojection... hmm not sure, if there is an option to force SteamVR to do smart smoothing for the P5k+, like it could be forced by editing for WMR headsets.

But there´s definitely some progress with the new SteamVR update regarding compability and support for the P5k+.

Hi lefuneste01,

forcing smart smoothing by file editing, like it could be done for WMR, couldn´t be done for Pimax, as the file used to edit comes with the WMR for SteamVR App and is not part of original SteamVR.

Without executing Pitool, there is still running following Pimax apps in the background:

- pi_overlay ( takes approx 0,3% of CPU and 12 MB of RAM )

- pi_server ( approx 3% of CPU / 50 MB RAM )

- PiService

- PiServiceLauncher

None of these Pimax apps could be shutdown without shutting down the headset, but they don´t take noticebale much resources.

Interesting is, that SteamVR is NOT running any programm in the background as long as SteamVR is not executed. You can run DCS with the P5k+ without having any SteamVR running as GUI app on the desktop or any background running process... this confuses me, as you could adjust the render target with steamVR and then shutting down SteamVR completely - I wonder if or how the render target set by SteamVR is active, when steamVR is not running, not even in the background?

Anyway, while playing around again with render resolutions, I could definitely say, that the best image quality in terms of sharpness and clarity could be only achieved by PD setting within DCS VR options.

Tried different render targets with steamVR around 3000 x 1900. Pitool I don´t touch anymore and left it completely on default values ( image quality of 1.0 and only Lighthouse tracking checked ), but the image was worse than leaving SteamVR render target at 36% resulting in 2560 x 1616, but increased PD in DCS to 1.5.

Give it try, would be interesting to read your impression on scaling with DCS PD only.

My impression is a much more sharper image and in particular a much better image clarity by these settings.

But I have to mention, that I needed to deactivate MSAA in DCS to get a good performance of approx 45 - 50 FPS / under 20 ms frametime most of the time flying. With the F5E Tiger and the warbirds the performance was even better.

For a really good image clarity and view of details, DCS PD setting is definitely the best.

About Pitools smart smoothing I couldn´t speak of a really noticeable difference if activated or deactivated - I got the feeling that Pitools smart smoothing does not properly interact with the openVR render pipeline and might make things more worse than better, but that´s just a feeling.

Edit: I have to correct: SteamVR_Web_helper, VR compositor, VR Server and VR dashboard are the SteamVR apps which are running in the background ... it seems they are loading in the background while DCS is loading in VR ... so no confusion at least. But the background running steamVR apps don´t take so much system ressources either.

Pimax livestream today. Hopefully some exciting news.

..

Anyway, while playing around again with render resolutions, I could definitely say, that the best image quality in terms of sharpness and clarity could be only achieved by PD setting within DCS VR options.

..

Tried different render targets with steamVR around 3000 x 1900. Pitool I don´t touch anymore and left it completely on default values ( image quality of 1.0 and only Lighthouse tracking checked ), but the image was worse than leaving SteamVR render target at 36% resulting in 2560 x 1616, but increased PD in DCS to 1.5.

Give it try, would be interesting to read your impression on scaling with DCS PD only.

Did you try Pitool quality at 1.75 and steamVR SS at 20% ?

This is my config, plus PD in DCS at 1.3. I found that increasing Pitool quality improve globally image more than applying SS, in steamVR or in DCS, to have the same output resolution. Maybe it's placebo, but my idea is, as Piserver/Pisevice are rendering image, that they may have rendering option activated when you increase Pitool quality...You can also try the opposite : reduce Pitool quality at maximum, increase SS in steamVR to keep the same resolution and see resulting image...if there is no rendering option in Piserver other than output resolution, image should be the same...I did not find the time to test.

And also, activating SS in Pitool is not placebo. fps at ~45 without SS provide a non smooth experience when moving head (especially for left to right strafing move when looking Dashboard). Same situation at 32 fps with SS for 64 fps target is smooth, without too much articfact.

Someone did a good summary of the "Pimax day" event.

• The Pimax "Vision" 8K X is slated for release Dec 18th. Dual native 4K inputs through one DisplayPort 1.4 cable. Can use internal upscaler, if desired. New RGB stripe panels instead of pentile as in the current 8K. Better panel utilization for higher pixels per degree. Cost is $1300. Includes the new "Modular Audio Strap" and "Vision Comfort Kit."
  
• New Pimax "Vision" 8K+ is slated for release Oct 30th. Same improved panels and manufacturing process as is what's going into the 8K X, just no option for native dual 4K input. Cost is $1000. Also includes new Modular Audio Strap and Vision kit.
  
• New series of Pimax RE (Rugged Edition) headsets. Not intended for consumers, as you need to contact Pimax directly for a quote, but they're essentially made of reinforced metal, with redesigned PCBs, and coated in water-resistant materials. Intended for VR arcades.
  
• There's an upgrade plan for people with headsets already, and Kickstarter backers get pretty steep discounts on the new headsets, if they desire. Not sure details.
  
• Valve Lighthouse 2.0 basestations are shipping in next couple of weeks to backers.
  
• Pimax Sword and Sword Sense controllers are coming along well, but like March for the Sword and June+ for Sword Sense.
  
• Due to the long wait time for controllers, they're offering Kickstarter backers the ability to switch to the Valve Index controllers at a nominal fee (at cost, essentially).
  
• Modular Audio Strap is shipping in December to backers. Modular in the sense that the headphone design is completely replaceable. By default, it uses an off-ear design with speakers built into these 'pucks' on the side. They claim the audio is great, but will offer high-end over-the-ear headphones as an additional option for those who want. Over-the-ear drivers are made by a "well known" audio company.
  
• Vision Comfort Kit is an additional part that appears to be separate from the Modular Audio Strap? It's basically got a much bigger foam pad for your forehead, as far as I can tell, with a nose guard to eliminate light leakage. Ships Nov 1st, cost is $50.
  
• Handtracking module is shipping Dec 18th to backers. Optimized for Pimax, wide FOV, and high refresh rate. Co-designed with UltraHaptics, who now own LeapMotion.
  
• Eye Tracking module being developed with 7Invensun. Customized for Pimax's wide FOV and "ready for Dynamic Foveated Rendering." Ships Dec 15th to backers. BUT, it will not come free to backers like previously promised as a part of the stretch goals. $200 for backers, $300 for non-backers. Costs to custom design for wide FOV of Pimax headsets was apparently too great to offer for free. Take that as you will.
  
• Cooling fans as a part of the stretch goals will begin shipping in the 3rd week of October to backers. Backers must fill a request form for them on the Pimax website.
  
• Prescription lenses frames are the same as cooling fans. Shipping in a few weeks if you fill out a form requesting them. Can also 3D print your own with the design files they're uploading.
  
• 10 meter cable for Pimax headsets coming in November for backers. $100 cost.
  
• Three pieces of free content for Kickstarter backers are "The Dream Collector," "The First Class VR," and an unannounced sword fighting game optimized for their Sword and Sword Sense controllers. To be revealed in November. Steam codes for the other two will be send this month to backers.
  
• Pimax 5K+ is getting a firmware update to enable 120Hz mode. Apparently the 5K+ panels are native 120Hz, but it requires you to lower the FOV to the low setting.
  
• Something about Brainwarp 1.5? It's in the table of contents, but don't remember them talking about it.
  
• PiTool is going open source as of today. Will be open sourced in three phases, phase 2 is coming 3rd week of October. Phase 3 is in November.
  
• Wireless module was not really discussed, but is still in development of course. It's been challenging, and will not be discussed further until next year.
  

Did you try Pitool quality at 1.75 and steamVR SS at 20% ?

This is my config, plus PD in DCS at 1.3. I found that increasing Pitool quality improve globally image more than applying SS, in steamVR or in DCS, to have the same output resolution. Maybe it's placebo, but my idea is, as Piserver/Pisevice are rendering image, that they may have rendering option activated when you increase Pitool quality...You can also try the opposite : reduce Pitool quality at maximum, increase SS in steamVR to keep the same resolution and see resulting image...if there is no rendering option in Piserver other than output resolution, image should be the same...I did not find the time to test.

And also, activating SS in Pitool is not placebo. fps at ~45 without SS provide a non smooth experience when moving head (especially for left to right strafing move when looking Dashboard). Same situation at 32 fps with SS for 64 fps target is smooth, without too much articfact.

Did not tried your settings yet, but am always very interested in your configurations and impressions.

But I don´t share your opinion on the point, that increasing the render resolution by Pitool activates a hidden process for the benefit of anti aliasing. I don´t think that there´s a secret function in Pitool´s algorythms, that is more efficient due to supersampling than in SteamVr or DCS PD setting.

Another point I disagree is the circumstance of downsampling by SteamVR to 20% and then upsampling by Pitool to 1.75 render quality. In my opinion downsampling should be avoided in the render process, as it effects in a loss of image information/quality.

Currently I´m tryng to keep SteamVR at minimum to the native render resolution of 2560 x 1440 per eye respectively 2560 x 1616 as adjusted by SteamVR.

Following the renderpipeline is still a bit mystery, but so far I think DCS´ PD setting results in a more efficient scaling/supersampling as the image is created by DCS´s graphics engine; each step after this image creation only deals with upsampling/downsampling with the predefinition and does not add more image information/quality than DCS graphics engine could do. My assumption is, that Pitool´s rendere quality setting only supersamples the predefined image.

Agree that Pitools smart smoothing is efficient. So far I don´t see so much of a difference regarding the smoothness while moving the head, but I could see a difference in a tearing/ washing out effect in the cockpit without Pitools smart smoothing. Pitools smart smoothing is surely no placebo, like our individual impressions could be - I will keep it activated.

In anyway we could reach comparable image quality by different approaches - interesting on this, which approach is more frametime/FPS efficient, but differences might be marginal and only perceivable in minimal difference in measured values, but not in game.

Maybe there will be coming up more adjustment screws to discuss, when Pitool becomes open source. In anyway we could reach perfect image quality with the 5k+ with better performing Hard- and software behind. Especially software and compatibilty is constantly improved, whether steamVR ( openVR ) compositor or PiService compositor.

Now, let´s have some fun with the witchhunters´s comments in the internet trying to destroy Pimax´innovative approach for VR at affordable prices with recent announcements. :-)))

Someone did a good summary of the "Pimax day" event.

 

 

 

• The Pimax "Vision" 8K X is slated for release Dec 18th. Dual native 4K inputs through one DisplayPort 1.4 cable. Can use internal upscaler, if desired. New RGB stripe panels instead of pentile as in the current 8K. Better panel utilization for higher pixels per degree. Cost is $1300. Includes the new "Modular Audio Strap" and "Vision Comfort Kit."
  
• New Pimax "Vision" 8K+ is slated for release Oct 30th. Same improved panels and manufacturing process as is what's going into the 8K X, just no option for native dual 4K input. Cost is $1000. Also includes new Modular Audio Strap and Vision kit.
  
• New series of Pimax RE (Rugged Edition) headsets. Not intended for consumers, as you need to contact Pimax directly for a quote, but they're essentially made of reinforced metal, with redesigned PCBs, and coated in water-resistant materials. Intended for VR arcades.
  
• There's an upgrade plan for people with headsets already, and Kickstarter backers get pretty steep discounts on the new headsets, if they desire. Not sure details.
  
• Valve Lighthouse 2.0 basestations are shipping in next couple of weeks to backers.
  
• Pimax Sword and Sword Sense controllers are coming along well, but like March for the Sword and June+ for Sword Sense.
  
• Due to the long wait time for controllers, they're offering Kickstarter backers the ability to switch to the Valve Index controllers at a nominal fee (at cost, essentially).
  
• Modular Audio Strap is shipping in December to backers. Modular in the sense that the headphone design is completely replaceable. By default, it uses an off-ear design with speakers built into these 'pucks' on the side. They claim the audio is great, but will offer high-end over-the-ear headphones as an additional option for those who want. Over-the-ear drivers are made by a "well known" audio company.
  
• Vision Comfort Kit is an additional part that appears to be separate from the Modular Audio Strap? It's basically got a much bigger foam pad for your forehead, as far as I can tell, with a nose guard to eliminate light leakage. Ships Nov 1st, cost is $50.
  
• Handtracking module is shipping Dec 18th to backers. Optimized for Pimax, wide FOV, and high refresh rate. Co-designed with UltraHaptics, who now own LeapMotion.
  
• Eye Tracking module being developed with 7Invensun. Customized for Pimax's wide FOV and "ready for Dynamic Foveated Rendering." Ships Dec 15th to backers. BUT, it will not come free to backers like previously promised as a part of the stretch goals. $200 for backers, $300 for non-backers. Costs to custom design for wide FOV of Pimax headsets was apparently too great to offer for free. Take that as you will.
  
• Cooling fans as a part of the stretch goals will begin shipping in the 3rd week of October to backers. Backers must fill a request form for them on the Pimax website.
  
• Prescription lenses frames are the same as cooling fans. Shipping in a few weeks if you fill out a form requesting them. Can also 3D print your own with the design files they're uploading.
  
• 10 meter cable for Pimax headsets coming in November for backers. $100 cost.
  
• Three pieces of free content for Kickstarter backers are "The Dream Collector," "The First Class VR," and an unannounced sword fighting game optimized for their Sword and Sword Sense controllers. To be revealed in November. Steam codes for the other two will be send this month to backers.
  
• Pimax 5K+ is getting a firmware update to enable 120Hz mode. Apparently the 5K+ panels are native 120Hz, but it requires you to lower the FOV to the low setting.
  
• Something about Brainwarp 1.5? It's in the table of contents, but don't remember them talking about it.
  
• PiTool is going open source as of today. Will be open sourced in three phases, phase 2 is coming 3rd week of October. Phase 3 is in November.
  
• Wireless module was not really discussed, but is still in development of course. It's been challenging, and will not be discussed further until next year.
  

I watched the video... looks very impressive, fingers crossed!

I watched the video... looks very impressive, fingers crossed!

It looks even more impressive in through the lens zoom photos, comparing 8kx with 5k+. Improvement is on pair with boost we had going from first Oculus Rift to 5k+. Check this out!

https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/sde-through-the-lenses-macro-pimax-8kx-vs-5k-just-a-teaser/22221

I may hold out for the 8KX now.

Hello all.

I have a Pimax without base statons. And I did not used my Pimax 5K since April. Two Days ago I run my PC, connected Pimax all works fine. Yesterday I installed Win 10 (insead of 7), new version of Pitool and when I connected Pimax, firmware was updated. But now I see the message that device is not tracked. Pitool ask me to configure my room, but does not see a base station (as it is absent). I'm not sure but as I remember in old version of pitool I was able to chose using Pimax without base station. But now I can not find this setting.

Does smth was changed and now it is not possible to use Pimax without base stations?

Maybe try turning off Lighthouse tracking in HMD settings?

Awesome picture quality of 8k plus in DCS! System req. are the same as for 8K.

Maybe try turning off Lighthouse tracking in HMD settings?

Thank you very much!!! It was exactly this

DCS in 8КХ lens

Latest video reminded me again, how limiting small FOV really is. Pimax is not perfect, to start DCS on my 5k+ is around 2 minutes procedure, but it is still worth it for me. Of course, I have a monster PC, which although struggling, but still managing to deliver somehow acceptable performance on close to maxed out graphic settings. 8KX is a day-one buy for me.

Latest video reminded me again, how limiting small FOV really is. Pimax is not perfect, to start DCS on my 5k+ is around 2 minutes procedure, but it is still worth it for me. Of course, I have a monster PC, which although struggling, but still managing to deliver somehow acceptable performance on close to maxed out graphic settings. 8KX is a day-one buy for me.

Although I'm really excited about The new Pimax headsets.....I'll need to see exactly what kind of discounts they're offering Backers of the first series....I'm pretty happy with my 5k+:thumbup: It seems The World of VR tech is progressing faster than my wallet can recover:cry: At some point....I'm going to have to skip a few levels of progress.:doh:

I am in the same situation as you. My next buy wil be the next gen Nvidia, to make better use of my 5k+. After that i will look for what then is a good VR headset.

The 5k+ still has good life in it, it is the graphics card that is the bottleneck.

hi there

i have a pimax5k and await one lighthouse basestation (1) next days

can you tell me how to bring them to work and where the best position for the basestation is

im confused about the basestationtechnice - because there are not connected to the pc

thx 4 help

so the HMD has to find and identify them ?