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Nice addition - but... adversaries ?


fjacobsen

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It´s nice to see na I-16 in DCS, but there is no suitable advesaries.

 

 

We only have late war BF-109K and FW-190-D9 (with the A model on the horizon).

 

 

So in DCS is not alot of dogfighting to do with an I-16 other than present Yourself as a target - or what do those who allready bought it think ?

 

 

Any plan for AI BF-109E/F (War against Soviet) or even BF-109 A-E (Spanish Civil War)versions?


Edited by fjacobsen

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how is 109k not a "fair" matchup but suddenly 109f is "okay" in your books? just because it happened in history? you seem to forget that history is rife with unfair matchups.

 

that doesn't mean an unfair matchup cant be won

if you think you are nothing but a target for a 109k then you will be nothing but a target for a 109f

but if you know how to leverage your strengths you can fight against the 109k just the same

 

winning starts in your mind


Edited by probad
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how is 109k not a "fair" matchup but suddenly 109f is "okay" in your books? just because it happened in history? you seem to forget that history is rife with unfair matchups.

 

that doesn't mean an unfair matchup cant be won

if you think you are nothing but a target for a 109k then you will be nothing but a target for a 109f

but if you know how to leverage your strengths you can fight against the 109k just the same

 

winning starts in your mind

 

 

Sure...

 

 

But while the I-16 was better in a turning fight against the BF-109E/F, it was still regarded as obsolete at the outbreak of WW2.

A well flown (not even ace level) BF-109F could pick when and where to engage an I-16.

 

There are limits to how much a fighting mind and will can do compared to pure performance differences.

 

Moving to a fight against the BF-109K we have in DCS...

Here we are talking about an 1430 hp (1600 hp emergency) engine against an 1100 hp engine and a max speed of 670 km/h (710 km/h using MW-50) against a max speed of 525 km/h. Climbrate was 3500 ft/min against 2900 ft/min.

 

So when it comes to fighting will and mind, You should really hope thet the BF-109K guy is a real noob, or posing a lucky shot.

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A well flown (not even ace level) BF-109F could pick when and where to engage an I-16.
So, same as already happens with Spitfire and 109K4. Having a Bf109E available wouldn't change the fact that I-16 shows inferior performances, specially with regards to speed. So probably even having that other early models available people would complain the same about how superior Emil and or Fritz is and how a bad time they have flying the I-16. I see no difference with the current situation really :lol: .

 

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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So, same as already happens with Spitfire and 109K4. Having a Bf109E available wouldn't change the fact that I-16 shows inferior performances, specially with regards to speed. So probably even having that other early models available people would complain the same about how superior Emil and or Fritz is and how a bad time they have flying the I-16. I see no difference with the current situation really :lol: .

 

 

 

S!

 

 

I agree

 

 

I know that it´s up the the 3rd party developers to choose their favorite aircraft, but seeing DCS as a whole, the available and flyable aircraft does not match up very well.

 

 

I look forward to the P-47 and FW-190A and hope that they will change the P-51D giving it it´s wartime power.

 

 

For a module like the I-16, there should have been at least an AI BF-109E, HE-111 or JU-87.

 

 

It´s like Kubica in Formula 1 right now - a guy with an incredible fighting will and the right mindset, but without the right tool to have even the slightest chance towin.

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Khalkhin Gol is the solution :sorcerer:
That'd be gorgeous, though I think earlier models were flying in there.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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I agree

 

 

I know that it´s up the the 3rd party developers to choose their favorite aircraft, but seeing DCS as a whole, the available and flyable aircraft does not match up very well.

 

 

I look forward to the P-47 and FW-190A and hope that they will change the P-51D giving it it´s wartime power.

 

 

For a module like the I-16, there should have been at least an AI BF-109E, HE-111 or JU-87.

 

 

It´s like Kubica in Formula 1 right now - a guy with an incredible fighting will and the right mindset, but without the right tool to have even the slightest chance towin.

Yeah, of course I wouldn't say I don't want those models available, IA at first and maybe Bf109E flyable some day.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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This module is so much fun, but it really shows how fast airplane technology advanced in WW2. I've always known that, but now I REALLY know that lol. Flying this and then flying the late-model 109 is like moving to a rocketship, the hp is just ridiculous! I hope we one day get a P-40 or something that can be on pseudo-equal footing.

 

This module is so cool, though. It's really well-made but it also gives you a real appreciation for the other late war planes we have. I think it's important to represent all periods of aviation history from the beginning of WW2 to modern jets.

 

This model, as far as I'm concerned, represents the very genesis of the WW2 fighter!

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It´s nice to see na I-16 in DCS, but there is no suitable advesaries.

 

The high-fidelity nature of DCS means (amongst many other things) that the developers really must have a passion for the aircraft to give it the level of attention needed to bring it to fruition. This in turn results in a collection of those aircraft that appeal to the developers and that can get financed. It is inevitable that there will be some "outliers" which don't form part of a set to the minds of certain players.

 

Then, the community has been asking for the Eastern Front for a long time. The first aircraft for that theatre is, by definition, going to be without an adversary.

 

Many other aircraft in DCS are without adversaries (or at least were, when they first came out). The first DCS warbird, obviously, was one.

 

Not every aircraft needs to have an adversary to make it an enjoyable model. Yak-52 for example.

 

 

 

 

With that all said, it strikes me that in the meantime, the best adversary for the I-16 is... another I-16. With the skins implemented, we have:

 

 

  • Finland vs Soviet Union
  • Nationalist Spain vs Republican Spain

 

and, hopefully one day...

 

 

 

 

So in DCS is not alot of dogfighting to do with an I-16 other than present Yourself as a target - {...}

 

 

That's not what the Cristen Eagle II pilots are saying about the I-16. :D

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I´m not saying that the I-16 won´t be fun - I actually really consider buying it.

 

But it´s going to live in an empty world for quite some time I guess, other than attacking ground targets.

Offcourse the BF-109K and FW-190-D9 can be used, but historically seen I doubt they ever met and You must be a machocist to fight with them.

 

I´m not asking for a fully simulated adversary, but just a simple AI BF-109E or maybe even better - a Brewster Buffalo F2A (Finnish vs Soviet).

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But it´s going to live in an empty world for quite some time I guess, other than attacking ground targets.
So as P-51 was at first, released in 2012 as a proof of concept and now there are suited adversaries and more to come.

 

 

S!

"I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war."

-- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice

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In the short term, we could really do with AI early 109s, stukas, me109s and similar.

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War is unfair...

War is asymmetric

War is War....

How many conflict do You know that was perfectly balanced?

Sure we need some historic opponent for I-16 (as for the other warbirds...) but as someone stated these opponent will be in every case more advanced...

But this is a simulator and must simulate the real things...so even when they will bring some real historic opponent to the I-16 there will be some "gamer" players that will complain about balance....my 2 cents is...don't play it...use other "uberkiller" planes and have fun...

For the others, the simmers that enjoy also unfair game but realistic...the I-16 (and the others) will be a viable solutions to simulate real war conflict and will enjoy it. :)

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I´m not saying that the I-16 won´t be fun - I actually really consider buying it.

 

But it´s going to live in an empty world for quite some time I guess, other than attacking ground targets.

Offcourse the BF-109K and FW-190-D9 can be used, but historically seen I doubt they ever met and You must be a machocist to fight with them.

 

I´m not asking for a fully simulated adversary, but just a simple AI BF-109E or maybe even better - a Brewster Buffalo F2A (Finnish vs Soviet).

 

The Developer has already included a number of skins for the I-16; Spanish Nationalist, Spanish Republican, Finnish, and I think some others. Just do quick missions or create missions with the historic adversaries. Now you have adversaries. They don’t have to be existing German aircraft!

When all else fails, READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!

 

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Fairness is not part of the military vocabulary. Everybody tries to get an "unfair advantage" and that's what drives the rapid innovation in military technology.

When the Ratas showed up in Spanish skies they beat the hell out of the German fighters of Legion Condor. When the Messerschmidt came to Spain they reversed the situation.

But in DCS World you have the benefit of rather dumb AI pilots and that's where you can be successful even with the I-16 against the Bf-109K. I have flown the "Dogfight" mission in Instant Action a few times, and I have killed the Bf-109 every time.

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As Told before. All the WW2 modules including maps, are an authentic disaster in term of investment and lost. Not even 3 servers with 5 players... Who care about WW2 when Yak and La are missed. Who care...? They shut down the best of the Luftwaffe...

 

So after see how The fighter Collection company only invest in western aircraft (here there are not excuses) then we get a 3Th party independent taking his time to put on sale the oldest technology for Red Side...

 

If The fighter Collection doesn’t show interest then how long we must wait and see 3 WW2 servers only with no more than 10 players. ED... who is ED?

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I never really understood why they didn'T continue to expand the Korean War plane set after they already had the late P-51, MiG-15 and F-86. The conflict would have been a great platform to 9ntroduce the finest, and most popular, piston engine fighters from East and West. Even Luthier and his team once worked on a later abandoned Korea sim some time before the WW2 Kickstarter.

 

Now they should try to stich together everything with as few pieces as possible. Thus a Bf-109E, especially if we will indeed get a strait of Dover map, or A6M (China, opponent for upcoming F4U) for example.

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