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DCS «MiGs versus Sabers» tournament discussion (EN)


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On what servers can I train? The one mentioned by the organizers has never shown up and the only available servers are locked by password and like if it wasn't enough, crazy high ping.... So yeah how can we train then? Playing against the A.I isn't too great.

 

You can try the server specified in the competition regulations. It works 24/7 on v1.2.16.

There are a MiG-15 and F-86 and you can check connection quality with ping. :)

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MB: MPG-Z390 GP / i7 9700KF 4,8 ГГц / DDR4 64 Gb 3466 МГц / GTX 2080Super / Acer 43" ET430KWMIIQPPX 4k / Win 10

 

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Registration for a tournament will end soon!

 

Dear participants of ED forum!

We inform you that the registration for the DCS "MiGs versus Sabres" tournament will last till 11.20.2015 (MM-DD-YY) and will be closed at 23:59 GMT + 3 (Moscow), or earlier if the number of participants will be reached up to maximum of 256 people.

Be careful when you make your application for participation in the tournament.

Applications for participation in a tournament the fillings which aren't corresponding to a form according to Regulations of a tournament won't be able to be processed and won't be included in the list of the accepted applications for participation!

Carefully check the application form for participation the following data:

- your nickname in the tournament;

- your time zone GMT (example, GMT 0, GMT+6, GMT-4 and etc.);

- URL (link) to your ED forum profile (account);

- type of aircraft.

 

The lack of relevant data in the fields of the application form, incomplete or incorrect data are the cause of failure of the application process and the inability to participate in the tournament.

More than one application for participation in the tournament by one profile (account) is not accepted.

If you submitted the application for participation, surely check this message ! It contains information on participants and the rejected applications.

MB: MPG-Z390 GP / i7 9700KF 4,8 ГГц / DDR4 64 Gb 3466 МГц / GTX 2080Super / Acer 43" ET430KWMIIQPPX 4k / Win 10

 

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Fuel Quantity

 

The rules say regarding fuel:

Quantity of fuel for 11 minutes of battle at maximum capacity (at the ground) (MiG15bis 469kg, F86F Sabre 420kg).

 

Is this enough? Two issues...

 

1) A match can easily exceed 11 minutes due to inexperienced pilots taking longer to get a good gun shot, or two equal and experienced pilots because they are really good at defense. I imagine the final battles between the best pilots will become drawn out battles due to the equality and high level of skill of the pilots. I would hate to see a long battle constantly interrupted by the 11 minute fuel limit.

 

Or maybe that is the intent? To make sure the matches are fast and furious? But the bigger problem is...

 

2) The rules say the match is a draw if both run out of fuel, but this is unlikely to occur at the same moment. Someone will be a sitting duck for a period of time, and depending on fuel usage, that could easily be 30 seconds or more. It makes fuel strategy the most important factor.

 

 

 

Maybe fuel strategy was intended as part of the competition, but I would hate to see matches determined by who can conserve the most fuel and finally get the kill only when the opponent's engine dies. The way the rule is written, a draw only occurs if both run out of fuel or ammo.

 

Thanks,

Michael

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The rules say regarding fuel:

Is this enough?

 

Yeah.

Try to understand that about 2/3 from the volume of fuel were required what to reach to a place of fight and back.

Therefore, the established volume of fuel is very adequate to a situation.

 

Two issues...

 

1) A match can easily exceed 11 minutes due to inexperienced pilots taking longer to get a good gun shot, or two equal and experienced pilots because they are really good at defense. I imagine the final battles between the best pilots will become drawn out battles due to the equality and high level of skill of the pilots. I would hate to see a long battle constantly interrupted by the 11 minute fuel limit.

 

11 minutes are shown at the ground.

In middle and high altitude it could be 15 or even 20 minutes. :)

Skilled pilot always shoots straight.

The tightening of battle isn't a skill sign.

Arbitrators of a tournament for abuse (tightening) of battle can issue warnings and disqualify according to Regulations of a tournament.

 

Or maybe that is the intent? To make sure the matches are fast and furious? But the bigger problem is...

2) The rules say the match is a draw if both run out of fuel, but this is unlikely to occur at the same moment. Someone will be a sitting duck for a period of time, and depending on fuel usage, that could easily be 30 seconds or more. It makes fuel strategy the most important factor.

 

You are right. So it will happen. :)

But fuel strategy leads to a tightening (slackness) in battle. Arbitrators can qualify it as passive battle (passive fight).

Only one fuel strategy isn't an indicator of great skills of the pilot. And the tournament reveals the strongest, theoretically and practical competent.

 

Maybe fuel strategy was intended as part of the competition, but I would hate to see matches determined by who can conserve the most fuel and finally get the kill only when the opponent's engine dies. The way the rule is written, a draw only occurs if both run out of fuel or ammo.

 

We will proceed from a concrete situation in battle.

If it is visible that one of participants of a tournament tries to extend on fuel without attempts of a tactical change of battle - he will receive the prevention. In total there can be no more than two preventions for all tournament. After that such participant is disqualified.

 

 

P.S. I also want to notice one important detail.

Those players who often train in online on fighting servers will have more chances of a victory. Than those players who trains with bots in offline.

Therefore we also made the training server for opportunity to train against people. The human is more cunning than those bots that are realized in a DCS. :)

MB: MPG-Z390 GP / i7 9700KF 4,8 ГГц / DDR4 64 Gb 3466 МГц / GTX 2080Super / Acer 43" ET430KWMIIQPPX 4k / Win 10

 

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Thanks, helpful response.

 

If the rule is, you run out of fuel first, too bad, then fuel will be a deciding factor in some matches whether the contestants try to conserve fuel or not. As a contestant and spectator (because I'm not going to win this tournament), I'm hoping to see some epic battles. But if those battles are determined by fuel, there will be nothing epic about it.

 

I don't think people normally care about fuel when dog fighting in DCS unless they are doing it as part of a long encounter (starting at the airport, flying into battle, and having to make it home alive). This isn't Korea where the smart pilot bugs out and goes home at bingo fuel (to live and fight another day). It's a "video game" match with artificial circumstances created for the sake of fairness and it is a fight to the death.

 

I'm not refuting the 11 minute fuel amount. I'm not the one to ask. I'm just asking, should it be higher to guarantee fights will be determined by skill, not worrying about fuel. Maybe 98% of all dogfights in DCS are determined in a few minutes. If so, that's the answer to my question.

 

Also again I'm suggesting, there will be a lot of inexperienced dog fighters coming out for the first time. Lots of these contestants will spend half their time just trying to find their opponent because they aren't skilled at keeping their eye on the other aircraft. For these people, fuel may often determine the match. Or maybe not, because chances are they'll be matched up with a superior combatant and the match will be over in seconds. :) So really, it's the battles by expert and equally matched contestants which could draw out for a long time that I am thinking about most.

 

Regards,

Michael

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I can't tell the future. I can only assume with a certain share of probability using mathematics and statistics.

At such large number of participants it is possible to approve one - we will be able to see different situations.

Results of a tournament will objectively reflect reality and everyone will be able to draw for himself conclusions. :)

MB: MPG-Z390 GP / i7 9700KF 4,8 ГГц / DDR4 64 Gb 3466 МГц / GTX 2080Super / Acer 43" ET430KWMIIQPPX 4k / Win 10

 

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It was said we could switch which aircraft we choose to fly up until the tournament starts, but with the delay in starting the tournament, it is unclear when that cutoff is now. I was going to change to the Mig today, but you closed the thread and I can't make that change now. Please clarify.

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From the text on the registration page:

 

Note: Editing of one’s message containing an application at ED forum is permitted before beginning of the tournament, including deletion of the message. Editing or deletion of one’s message containing an application after beginning of the tournament is prohibited.

 

The tournament has not begun and as best we've been told, will not start for 2-3 weeks. I took this to mean we have until then to change our aircraft choice. If the statement had said that changing our registration was not allowed after the close of registration, I would have changed it before the registration closure time (midnight GMT+3 11/20). But that's not what we were told.

 

I'm not trying to make trouble. But I am asking that you be more clear about your rules to avoid confusion. It is disappointing when the rules say one thing and something else happens. Thanks.

 

Regards,

Michael

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You can not change the type of aircraft after the end of registration.

 

Everyone had time to think (2 weeks) and to make the decision on a choice of the plane. They could change plane type before the end of registration. But, not after the end of registration.

Registration is closed and theme (thread) is closed. Nobody will be able to change information in the applications for the tournament. :)

MB: MPG-Z390 GP / i7 9700KF 4,8 ГГц / DDR4 64 Gb 3466 МГц / GTX 2080Super / Acer 43" ET430KWMIIQPPX 4k / Win 10

 

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i registerd weeks ago then 2 days ago i was informed via private message i had to change something , so i changed it then at 3 in the am i get a message which i dint read till 11am that i need to delete a post. but because of the stupid time zones etc the post had closed so i could not do anything. clearly states in my profile that i am GMT what is the point in messaging someone to change something knowing very well that they wont be able to cause of time zones.........rant over waiting for next contest

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Attention!

 

We were able to start training server in the Open Beta 1.5.1 in stable mode.

Name: Guns'N'Roses Arena Server (SPC)

IP: 89.175.185.195 (port 10312)

 

Try and check quality and Ping.

 

Please enable F-10 map view. People can't find each other often resulting in seemingly empty server.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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Please enable F-10 map view. People can't find each other often resulting in seemingly empty server.

 

Ok. F10 (map) enabled.

I recommend to train in the full-real mode (no external views, real G, full avionics and etc).

F10 won't show you labels.

Try to use TrackIR.


Edited by Dell_Murrey-RUS

MB: MPG-Z390 GP / i7 9700KF 4,8 ГГц / DDR4 64 Gb 3466 МГц / GTX 2080Super / Acer 43" ET430KWMIIQPPX 4k / Win 10

 

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I can't wait for this tournament. I am going to go out on a limb and predict that where the pilots are of roughly equal ability, the F-86F Sabre will beat the Mig-15bis about 2:1. When the Mig-15bis pilot is better than the F86F Sabre pilot, that might get closer to 1.5:1 in the Sabre's favor, up to about to 1:1. When the Sabre pilot is better than the Mig-15bis pilot, it will be a walk over.

 

My reasoning is that, while the Mig-15bis is a superlative Transonic Point Defense Bomber Interceptor, it is not really a Fighter, per se. The Mig-15bis is best adapted to downing large bombers, flying straight and level, more or less. The Sabre is optimized to be a fighter & in most respects, but certainly not all respects, can outperform the Mig-15bis in the fighter role.

 

We shall see. It is an interesting contest. I must say, I really love both modules from Belsimtek. The DCS Mig-15bis and DCS-F86F are really both fantastic add-ons.

 

:thumbup: MJ


Edited by mjmorrow
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I can't wait for this tournament. I am going to go out on a limb and predict that where the pilots are of roughly equal ability, the F-86F Sabre will beat the Mig-15bis about 2:1. When the Mig-15bis pilot is better than the F86F Sabre pilot, that might get closer to 1.5:1 in the Sabre's favor, up to about to 1:1. When the Sabre pilot is better than the Mig-15bis pilot, it will be a walk over.

 

My reasoning is that, while the Mig-15bis is a superlative Transonic Point Defense Bomber Interceptor, it is not really a Fighter, per se. The Mig-15bis is best adapted to downing large bombers, flying straight and level, more or less. The Sabre is optimized to be a fighter & in most respects, but certainly not all respects, can outperform the Mig-15bis in the fighter role.

 

We shall see. It is an interesting contest. I must say, I really love both modules from Belsimtek. The DCS Mig-15bis and DCS-F86F are really both fantastic add-ons.

 

:thumbup: MJ

 

I love your sence of humor

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Don't know if this question might've been asked before, sorry if it might've been answered already:

 

Can we have model enlargement as SMALL instead of OFF?

 

Although even "SMALL" value might be making an aircraft/vehicle visible from a distance slightly higher than in real life, it is more realistic than being "OFF". With OFF, it's very difficult (becomes almost invisible) to spot an aircraft in dogfight if it's further than 1,5 - 2km from your point of view.

 

I didn't find any regulation taking this into account (at least not in the provided .pdf), yet I still hope we could use the "SMALL" model enlargement value.

 

Best wishes!

When you can't prove something with words, let the maths do the talking.

I have an insatiable passion for helping simulated aircraft fly realistically!

Sincerely, your correct flight model simulation advisor!

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