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Fulcrum is a handfull in landing pattern.


DmitriKozlowsky

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Oh man, this new PFM! The A/C flies great at combat speeds, but in landing pattern below 400 kph, with flaps out and gear down, with or w/o pitch trim, the A/C is a handful. The HUD glass darkens quite a bit. At dusk or dawn, landing in any runway in Normandy or unlit runway anywhere is difficult. Landing lights don;t quite illuminate runway until after landing. Just difficult to make out the runway. Nighttime on unlit runway landing, forge'bout'it!

Mig-29 needs A-10C, Harrier, or KA-50 night vision. For that matter, so does SU-27, SU-33, and J-11. Might as well add it to F-15C.

I am curious what real world Mig-29 and SU-27 pilots do when landing in tactical blackout, radio silence, at night and ICM ? Some kind of passive ILS?

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This is a lot of questions for one thread but I'll try:

Yeah, russian fighters are handful. They want it that way. Deal with it.

The HUD does not change during landing.

If you want lights contact ATC (Inbound).

Fighters don't need NVG - it's for night NOE and/or ground pounding.

Apart from using landing ligths, checking radar altimeter and using ILS, RSBN and stuff landing IFR is basically suicide for the aircraft that wasn't certified for this. So they would probably just divert.

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The Mig is easy to land if you adapt your handling to the Fulcrum needs.

 

Plus some fine tuning from ED at some points.

 

But overall the Mig-29 is quite easy to land if you know how to do it.

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No issues here either.

 

I haven't really flown the 29 with the SFM, as "simple flight models" don't really do anything for me, but with the PFM it's a joy to fly and ... land.

 

Usually for pattern work you might keep the speed above 400 km/h, during final around 350 km/h, over the threshold just around 300km/h, and touching down (with flaring to 10 deg pitch angle) around 290 km/h, while holding the nose up after the mains touch down. Usually, from the RL clips I saw, 29 pilots deploy the brake chute as soon as the mains touch down as well.

 

Also, constant trimmer use is needed, and I personally love to fly with the Attitude Hold AP channel engaged for most of the times (very convenient).

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The Mig is easy to land if you adapt your handling to the Fulcrum needs.

 

Plus some fine tuning from ED at some points.

 

But overall the Mig-29 is quite easy to land if you know how to do it.

 

Agree.

 

However I suspect most people were used to landing the Eagle, the Flanker, which let's face it, are both easier to land than the MiG-29 with PFM.

 

That "ground effect" that seems to increase the sink rate when landing the MiG, doesn't seem to affect so much the Eagle or the Flanker.


Edited by Top Jockey

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Well is like trying to land the Dora with the same technique as the Spitfire.

 

Everyone should adapt to the singularities of each module. But, maybe because my prior training, i dont feel the Fulcrum specially hard to land. But this is my personal experience.

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Well is like trying to land the Dora with the same technique as the Spitfire.

 

Everyone should adapt to the singularities of each module. But, maybe because my prior training, i dont feel the Fulcrum specially hard to land. But this is my personal experience.

 

Also true.

 

For me, the MiG-21Bis somewhat different landing characteristics was an eye-opener.

 

(Personaly I don't find the Fulcrum harder to land than the Fishbed.)

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The issue is pitch sensitivity below 400 kph with flaps out and gear down. I've also discovered that below 400, flaps out , gear down, landing trim, rudder is also sensitive, and that beyond certain angle of roll (during landing pattern leg transitions), the stall warning comes on, and inside wing semi-stalls resulting in uncommanded bank. If not arrested, will cause A/C to continue roll and go into nose down, into unrecoverable dive. So just a little rudder is allowed. Thats what gets me. Tiny inputs, below 400, have large effects and oscillations. Which makes landings a handfull.

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Then you just need to practice more and not do the things that are getting you killed, pretty much all there is to it. The gist of these threads is that the MiG-29 is appreciably different from other similar aircraft. Ok, so then work on that basis and go from there.

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The trick is to get her dirty and stabilized as you make your downwind turn. Use the ILS whenever possible. It is really well done.

 

Hope it helps!


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I don't know if curves, per se, are that much of an issue. I personally use a pitch curve of around 15 in all aircraft. I find it helpful rather than a hindrence. OTOH, I've never even considered using a curve much higher than that. So anything beyond that I really can't comment on.

 

As far as the MiG-29 is concerned, it's low speed handling does, at times, seem a bit odd. But it's far from being a show stopper. The odd thing about landing it is that you can't do it "by the book" from the last few meters or so down because it simply gets sucked down to the runway. You can't "float " it as the manual seems to describe. And, although the manual notes that "...The aircraft will land softly at a speed of 260...250 km/h with a landing angle of attack of about 11°", you can't (or at least I can't) land softly at anything less than 270 even at minimum weight.

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I found that in Fulcrum curves are not that necessary at least with my T.Flight HOTAS X. When faced with pitching precission problems at low speed I tried increasing curves at first from 40 even up to 70. It did not help much. I tried no curves instead and it was OK while i.e. F-15C is not flyable without.

To achieve ground effect float the aircraft should be able to fly level in landing configuration at set speed and weight. If it needs +11° AOA for 260kph and 0 VV then it simply cannot hold itself there and TD safely. Question is does it match RL flight charts?

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The odd thing about landing it is that you can't do it "by the book" from the last few meters or so down because it simply gets sucked down to the runway. You can't "float " it as the manual seems to describe. And, although the manual notes that "...The aircraft will land softly at a speed of 260...250 km/h with a landing angle of attack of about 11°", you can't (or at least I can't) land softly at anything less than 270 even at minimum weight.

 

 

That is most likely because, unfortunately none of the FC3 aircraft has ground effect implemented (demonstrable fact).

 

 

If ground effect was implemented, in MiG-29 for a given AOA at touchdown the speed would easily be like 15 Km/h lower.

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That is most likely because, unfortunately none of the FC3 aircraft has ground effect implemented (demonstrable fact).

 

 

If ground effect was implemented, in MiG-29 for a given AOA at touchdown the speed would easily be like 15 Km/h lower.

 

I’ve heard this before it must be right. What a shame with such attention to other aspects

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...

To achieve ground effect float the aircraft should be able to fly level in landing configuration at set speed and weight. If it needs +11° AOA for 260kph and 0 VV then it simply cannot hold itself there and TD safely. Question is does it match RL flight charts?

The slowest I've been able to go is, IIRC, 280 km/h (on the HUD) in level flight with an 11° AoA. Never looked at the steam gauge to see where in the 280 range the speed actually was. Could have been anywhere from 280 to 289.

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Takeoff and landing practice with Mig-29A

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Thank you for you patience.

 

 

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