Vedexent Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 (edited) They are not complaints, they are valid points of critique against the DLC. In my personal life, I'm not interested in blowing smoke up myself; I only care about the negatives in my work and what can be improved. And so should every organization think IMHO. OK, Vincent, I respect that you're arguing rationally and calmly. So I'm asking seriously - not rhetorically - how do you think this should be handled? I can't see any problem with Starways asking to be compensated for their work. As much as I love and support open source and communities coming together to create common content (including the many generous members of the DCS community), I never view this a right. And Starways is basing their ground maps of satellite imagery - which last time I checked, ain't free for commercial use, even from Google Maps. Companies which orbit satellites to produce commercial imagery expect to be paid. I can't expect Starways to purchase that access for me. Unless you're arguing for free access to their work - how do you propose they be compensated? Show me a Kickstarter- or better yet a Patreon page - as an alternative, and I'll happily kick in some $$ every time Starways publishes an upgrade, or a DLC. Heck, I "pay" for "free" content on a handful of YouTube channels because I want to encourage/enable those creators to keep making content for me. But when it comes down to the Starways DLC, this is the pricing model they've chosen. I don't see the "if you don't like the price, don't buy it" as hostile - just a reality of the market. If it's really an unreasonable price, maybe someone will see a business opportunity here to make a competing, less expensive, higher quality, texture upgrade, and "scoop" the Starways "market share". That's also a reality of the market. But, back to the original intent - How do you think this should be handled? Edited April 15, 2016 by Vedexent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmaruda Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 My comment wasn't meant to be hostile or defensive. It is true that price fairness is relative and of opinion. It is the pool of opinions that will dictate what is fair in the free market. However there are ways of doing it without trivializing all the hard work that was put into something. I used to play a sim that was subscriber based for 15$ a month. Some months you would get updates and others you wouldn't. I wasn't only paying for the updates but the experience while I played as it was a mmog. So I don't only look at how long it would take me to create that for myself if I could , but also how much enjoyment it will bring me overtime. Everybody has to make that decision for themselves. That is a valid argument, but at the same time, if the price was more reasonable, everyone would buy it and in turn the general profit would be bigger. At 15 bucks, some will cough up the cash no problem, some people will not be able to afford it, since it's better to save up for a full module, and a great deal of people will simply no spend those 15 doritos out of principle, because you can spend it on something else and get a better value for your money. What this "DLC" is, is essentially a paid mod and we've seen how well that went for Skyrim. The sheer amount of controversy this has produced in mere hours warrants some consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grunf Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Thanks for your hard work, Starway. The textures look great, I'll definitely buy the DLC as soon as it comes out. :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcbak Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 There are a few folks that should have been compensated for their work. I use a number of cockpit mods, etc. that are absolutely fantastic....I wish those guys were compensated. Starway should absolutely be compensated for the work he has done....its outstanding. However, if you are going to charge $15.00 (which I will most likely purchase) I would hope that there would be work done on the waves in Black Sea itself for instance....it looks like a lake on a calm day. Features that go beyond the Northern Europe mod. Now, maybe those features exist. I would post comparison screen shots between the NE mod and the new DLC. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]WIN 10, i7 10700, 32GB DDR4, RTX 2080 Super, Crucial 1TB SSD, Samsung EVO 850 500GB SSD, TM Warthog with 10cm extension, TIR5, MFG Crosswind Pedals, Wheelstand Pro, LG 40" 4K TV, Razer Black Widow Ultimate KB[/size] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyFret Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Absolutely gorgeous work based on those comparison shots. Cant wait to get my hands on this DLC. Thanks and keep up the good work Starway. [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic109142_3.gif[/sIGPIC] PewPew, "Stick 'em with the pointy end" "Vasilissa the Beautiful" HD Cockpit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q800 Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Will this fix TGP issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmaruda Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Will this fix TGP issues? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted April 15, 2016 ED Team Share Posted April 15, 2016 Will this fix TGP issues? Has stated a few times in the thread already, ED will be fixing the FLIR issue, but this and other mods do seem to help. Hopefully Starway can share some FLIR shots at some point. Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edineygomes Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Its more than 'a' texture, but thanks for marginalizing his work totally... look guys, you have a choice here. You can buy this if you appreciate his work or you can stick with the base textures or other mods. ED continues to work on the this map, making many improvements pointed to be released with 2.5 (trust me, it will make some very nice improvements to the base map all free as always). They are not abandoning their own work on the map and forcing you to buy a DLC, this is just one of many options you have, like the campaigns or modules, not everything offered is for everyone. You don't like it, you don't have to buy it... but if you don't have anything constructive to add to this thread, then keep it to yourself. It's funny when people express their opinions concerning about the price or if it was to be free or not and suddenly someone says to keep for himself the opinion that the person has on the subject. About the price , some players live in countries where the dollar is too high , which is my case ( Brazil ) . I do not know if I buy the DLC but say to people who do not agree with the price and that DLC should be free to keep their opinions to themselves does not sound very democratic . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuky Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Nothing about democracy here. You did not do any work for this, Starway did, so he only is entitled to decide what to do with his work, sell it or give it for free. It is not up to you or anyone else on this forum do say/decide what he is to do. No longer active in DCS... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edineygomes Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Nothing about democracy here. You did not do any work for this, Starway did, so he only is entitled to decide what to do with his work, sell it or give it for free. It is not up to you or anyone else on this forum do say/decide what he is to do. What I mean is that I think not correct a person say to another to keep their opinions to herself just because she disagreed anything. I think it totally wrong , so said the democratic term . I just believe unnecessary to be so aggressive with each other only because he thought too expensive the price of DLC saying to keep their opinions to themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santi871 Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I think most of the concerns here are regarding a possible downfall of free mods and possible "uprising" of paid DLC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-GERAT Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I don't think that Starway should give it for free, I think that ED should pay him for his work and add it to the Caucasus free map.. I own everything for this sim ( except the a-10 dlc for Georgia, and due the lack of the quality of the map compared with Nevada ) , and due the fact that most of the modules are going to have the included campaign based in the Georgia map due it's free and is the only owned by all the people I think at least it should have a certain degree of quality.. This or a complete rework for Georgia by ED.. I don't like a scenario where the costumers should pay for everything as dlcs.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farlander Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 I think most of the concerns here are regarding a possible downfall of free mods and possible "uprising" of paid DLC. yea.. As most of these things listed in the changes have already been done previously by several other mods.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted April 15, 2016 ED Team Share Posted April 15, 2016 (edited) It's funny when people express their opinions concerning about the price or if it was to be free or not and suddenly someone says to keep for himself the opinion that the person has on the subject. About the price , some players live in countries where the dollar is too high , which is my case ( Brazil ) . I do not know if I buy the DLC but say to people who do not agree with the price and that DLC should be free to keep their opinions to themselves does not sound very democratic . When those opinions are insulting or not constructive, then yes, please, keep them to yourself, or aleast off these forums. They are not helpful to anyone, even the person that is tight on money and unsure if they can afford this. That isnt too much to ask. Edited April 15, 2016 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted April 15, 2016 ED Team Share Posted April 15, 2016 (edited) I don't think that Starway should give it for free, I think that ED should pay him for his work and add it to the Caucasus free map.. ED is working on their own free updates to the map, this is just another option. Just like ED has their own free campaigns, but is now offering other campaigns as paid DLC. Its simple as that. This or a complete rework for Georgia by ED.. I don't like a scenario where the costumers should pay for everything as dlcs.. DCS World and updates from ED are still very much free... dont misrepresent what is going on here, frankly I am growing tired of it no matter how many times we repeat that free updates from ED, including base textures is still happening. Edited April 15, 2016 by NineLine Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ebabil Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 couldn't see the comparison shots. can someone upload pics to the site? FC3 | UH-1 | Mi-8 | A-10C II | F/A-18 | Ka-50 III | F-14 | F-16 | AH-64 | Mi-24 | F-5 | F-15E| F-4| Tornado Persian Gulf | Nevada | Syria | NS-430 | Supercarrier // Wishlist: CH-53 | UH-60 Youtube MS FFB2 - TM Warthog - CH Pro Pedals - Trackir 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerO_crash Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Really now though, when will there ever be a "proper" winter ground texture that doesn`t look like a mix of fall and winter, but rather WINTER alone? Really that hard to make the ground all white, as in, you know, SNOW maybe? Other than that, great retexture, day one for me. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aviators Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 congratulation! L'importante non è stabilire se uno ha paura o meno, è saper convivere con la propria paura e non farsi condizionare dalla stessa. Ecco, il coraggio è questo, altrimenti non è più coraggio ma incoscienza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texac Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 couldn't see the comparison shots. can someone upload pics to the site? Maybe it works now? - My Skins/Liveries - Improved F-16C Texture Template • Texac on YouTube • Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Team NineLine Posted April 15, 2016 ED Team Share Posted April 15, 2016 Really now though, when will there ever be a "proper" winter ground texture that doesn`t look like a mix of fall and winter, but rather WINTER alone? Really that hard to make the ground all white, as in, you know, SNOW maybe? Other than that, great retexture, day one for me. I would love to see more snow as well... not completely white... but more snow :) Forum Rules • My YouTube • My Discord - NineLine#0440• **How to Report a Bug** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerO_crash Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLR Rico Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 OMG, these comments. Has anyone *ever* played any other flight sim? It's a pretty standard business model that you get a free, standard, ugly base map, and there's optional scenery you can buy. And guess what? It's never $15, it's usually about 4x that. This is a bargain, I'm definately buying first day. i5-4670K@4.5GHz / 16 GB RAM / SSD / GTX1080 Rift CV1 / G-seat / modded FFB HOTAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDsc0rch Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 (edited) i like it - i'll be buying it people should be compensated for their good work Edited April 15, 2016 by SDsc0rch i7-4790K | Asus Sabertooth Z97 MkI | 16Gb DDR3 | EVGA GTX 980 | TM Warthog | MFG Crosswind | Panasonic TC-58AX800U [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattebubben Posted April 15, 2016 Share Posted April 15, 2016 Really now though, when will there ever be a "proper" winter ground texture that doesn`t look like a mix of fall and winter, but rather WINTER alone? Really that hard to make the ground all white, as in, you know, SNOW maybe? Other than that, great retexture, day one for me. Well maby thats what the avg winter in Georgia looks like? =P. They dont have very cold winters (especially not along the costal areas etc). So id rather not have textures depicting a Arctic winter landscape if that is not what a Normal winter in Georgia looks like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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