The F-35 Thread

That was a quote from someone in the IDF, in the original news report in Hebrew. I linked it a few pages back.

 

--gos

I tried searching the forum for the link - I think you might have read it and forgotten to link it,

Any chance you could re-post it ?

Where is this from because that's not what is written in the various articles on the incident, where doubt is expressed as to wether or not the aircraft will fly again at all (!) Big difference.

It came from IDF office whereas the doubt that the aircraft will ever fly again came from Southfront which is the middle east equivalent of Sputnik.

The IDF Spokesperson's Office stated: "These allegations are incorrect. In preparation for a routine landing of the F-35, two injuries were found in the fuselage following a collision with the birds. The plane made a normal landing at the base and was sent to the usual maintenance treatment following such injuries. The plane will be used and will return for flight in the coming days. "

http://www.kan.org.il/item/?itemId=23623

Some cameras available today are capable of taking pictures of astounding quality at a distance, even in the dark.

I highly doubt that they can see the kind of damage that can be fixed in few days. Moreover they most likely put the airplane right into garage after it land so the window of opportunity is very small. TBH, Israel able to keep the "Pere tank" classified for over 30 years eventhough that thing fighting on the frontline , i don't think they need to release a half-ass cover story if they wanted to keep the damaged F-35 a secret.

Google must translate badly, because it translates your link as:

"Adir" plane was grounded because of a bird hit

 

The Air Force fears that the F-35 evader, considered the most advanced in the world, has lost its capabilities and is waiting for Lockheed Martin's opinion

 

An Israeli stealth aircraft of the F-35 (Adir), considered to be the most advanced in the world, was hit two weeks ago during training with a bird, The plane is safe. However, the plane is grounded since the incident and it is unclear when it will resume activity - if at all.

 

The Air Force fears that despite the planned re-use of the evaporator, it is not clear whether it will retain its evasive ability. The IDF confirmed the details and said that at no stage was life threatening to the pilot and are now awaiting the opinion of Lockheed Martin, the manufacturer of the plane, regarding the extent of the damage caused to it.

 

Today, the Air Force has seven huge planes, each costing $ 110 million. In August, a deal was completed for the purchase of another 17 such aircraft for the Israeli Air Force, and in total, 50 such aircraft will be served in two pilots. The total amount of the deal to purchase the 50 aircraft is estimated at seven billion dollars.

 

The IDF Spokesperson's Office stated: "These allegations are incorrect. In preparation for a routine landing of the F-35, two injuries were found in the fuselage following a collision with the birds. The plane made a normal landing at the base and was sent to the usual maintenance treatment following such injuries. The plane will be used and will return for flight in the coming days. "

 

"In terms of damage to a bird, there is no difference between hitting 35 or any other aircraft - the risk is the same risk," said Neri Yarkoni, a reserve colonel in the reserves. "What you have to do is simply not meet them, you can keep them away from the takeoff and landings, and the paths of bird migration are pretty constant," he said.

Which seems to me to read as the Kan II (Which is Israeli State TV) saying that although the IDF have said it was a routine airstrike, other parts of the IDF have confirmed that they are unsure if the aircraft will ever fly again ...(?)

Google must translate badly, because it translates your link as:

 

Which seems to me to read as the Kan II (Which is Israeli State TV) saying that although the IDF have said it was a routine airstrike, other parts of the IDF have confirmed that they are unsure if the aircraft will ever fly again ...(?)

I focused on the sentence inside the quotation marks. Because it is the direct quote from IDF. Others parts are simply author's opinion just like your or mine. The other indirect quote also showed that visibly the damage is cosmetic in the stealth paint as they planned to use the evaporator to fix it. If there was visible structure damage, no one will think about using an evaporator to fix that. I don't think they worried whether the F-35 will fly again. They are worried whether the F-35 will retain its stealth capabilities according to the quote, that makes sense because the damaged coating can increase its RCS.

"Adir" plane was grounded because of a bird hit

 

The Air Force fears that the F-35 evader, considered the most advanced in the world, has lost its capabilities and is waiting for Lockheed Martin's opinion

 

An Israeli stealth aircraft of the F-35 (Adir), considered to be the most advanced in the world, was hit two weeks ago during training with a bird, The plane is safe. However, the plane is grounded since the incident and it is unclear when it will resume activity - if at all.

 

The Air Force fears that despite the planned re-use of the evaporator, it is not clear whether it will retain its evasive ability. The IDF confirmed the details and said that at no stage was life threatening to the pilot and are now awaiting the opinion of Lockheed Martin, the manufacturer of the plane, regarding the extent of the damage caused to it.

 

Today, the Air Force has seven huge planes, each costing $ 110 million. In August, a deal was completed for the purchase of another 17 such aircraft for the Israeli Air Force, and in total, 50 such aircraft will be served in two pilots. The total amount of the deal to purchase the 50 aircraft is estimated at seven billion dollars.

 

The IDF Spokesperson's Office stated: "These allegations are incorrect. In preparation for a routine landing of the F-35, two injuries were found in the fuselage following a collision with the birds. The plane made a normal landing at the base and was sent to the usual maintenance treatment following such injuries. The plane will be used and will return for flight in the coming days. "

 

"In terms of damage to a bird, there is no difference between hitting 35 or any other aircraft - the risk is the same risk," said Neri Yarkoni, a reserve colonel in the reserves. "What you have to do is simply not meet them, you can keep them away from the takeoff and landings, and the paths of bird migration are pretty constant," he said.

Hmm, it's confusing isn't it, because the article is internally self contradictory :

However, the plane is grounded since the incident and it is unclear when it will resume activity - if at all.

 

The Air Force fears that despite the planned re-use of the evaporator, it is not clear whether it will retain its evasive ability. The IDF confirmed the details

Again, I guess time will tell ...

Hmm, it's confusing isn't it, because the article is internally self contradictory :

That is two separate paragraphs: the first one is the introduction or you can also call it the click bait of the article. An example would be the kind of title like " F-35 collided with birds, what happens next will surprise you"

The second paragraph is the actual story :where airforce express the concern that they don't know F-35 will still be as stealthy because the coating was damaged due to collision with birds

Unless you're saying that the translation we've both used is wrong, we'll have to disagree.

Other than liking what one says and not what the other one does, I can't see how you make the call that the paragraphs before "Today, the Air Force has ..." are 'clickbait' (on an Israeli State television channel), while the ones after are 'the real story', when both are explicitly stated to have been confirmed by the IDF.

"the plane is grounded since the incident and it is unclear when it will resume activity - if at all. (...) The IDF confirmed the details"

Then a paragraph on a completely different subject

then:

The IDF Spokesperson's Office stated (...) The plane will be used and will return for flight in the coming days.

Also, these are stealth aircraft that no one has much experience repairing.

If it was a very minor bird strike, the "evaporator"* might do the job.

If it was anything even remotely near something like this:

then you'd probably want to send it back to the factory Reps to check that it's still stealthy after the repairs.

That would probably be true if the damage were caused by a SAM going off somewhere in the vicinity too... :)

*Only $44m, limited numbers available. Not available in shops, ring now for a 30 day free trial and pay only P&H. First 25 purchasers receive a second evaporator free for only the extra P&H

Other than liking what one says and not what the other one does, I can't see how you make the call that the paragraphs before "Today, the Air Force has ..." are 'clickbait' (on an Israeli State television channel), while the ones after are 'the real story', when both are explicitly stated to have been confirmed by the IDF.

i don't really see how the first part confirmed by IDF, it clearly 2 different paragraphs. It doesn't make sense if the confirmation related to the previous paragraph if the sentence right next to the confirmation literally contradict the previous paragraph.

"Adir" plane was grounded because of a bird hit

 

The Air Force fears that the F-35 evader, considered the most advanced in the world, has lost its capabilities and is waiting for Lockheed Martin's opinion

 

 

An Israeli stealth aircraft of the F-35 (Adir), considered to be the most advanced in the world, was hit two weeks ago during training with a bird, The plane is safe. However, the plane is grounded since the incident and it is unclear when it will resume activity - if at all.

 

The Air Force fears that despite the planned re-use of the evaporator, it is not clear whether it will retain its evasive ability. The IDF confirmed the details and said that at no stage was life threatening to the pilot.

Also, these are stealth aircraft that no one has much experience repairing.

 

If it was a very minor bird strike, the "evaporator"* might do the job.

 

If it was anything even remotely near something like this:

then you'd probably want to send it back to the factory Reps to check that it's still stealthy after the repairs

But that the point. No sane person will look at the second picture and think: "Let just put some paint on that, i wonder if that may work". The damage clearly very minor, mostly on the coating if they think about using an evaporator to fix.

https://www.defensenews.com/digital-show-dailies/dubai-air-show/2017/11/10/us-air-force-official-confirms-rumors-of-f-35-talks-with-uae/

US Air Force official confirms rumors of F-35 talks with UAE

Is it just me.Or does the nose of the aircraft stay up an abnormally long time?

Aerobraking, normal procedure to reduce tire and brake wear.

Aerobraking, normal procedure to reduce tire and brake wear.

:thumbup: Thanks,I guess I've been watching to many F-35C Carrier Landing! :D

:thumbup: Thanks,I guess I've been watching to many F-35C Carrier Landing! :D

It's REALLY common. Even schmucks like me flying bush work use it.

Also, these are stealth aircraft that no one has much experience repairing.

 

then you'd probably want to send it back to the factory Reps to check that it's still stealthy after the repairs.

 

That would probably be true if the damage were caused by a SAM going off somewhere in the vicinity too... :)

 

 

I think you would be very surprised at how much experience trained maintainers DO have in repairing non-metallics and composites!

I'm sure they do - and that they're good at their jobs, but low observability is still new technology, and it's not a case of "it looks good by eye, but it pulls a teeny bit to the left - nothing you can't trim out though...".

you're seeing this too one-sidedly. stealth, like the camouflage fatigue, is now a necessary component of a competitive combat paradigm and is here to stay. by that same token though, the challenges that it brings will also beset everyone who is forced to adopt it. china and russia will both need to address stealth maintenance.

stealth will degrade for everyone. the party with the edge will be the one whose stealth degrades the least. this inherently favors the west which has favored high, long term investments over the traditional eastern preference for expendable materiel.

you always want to get your opponent to come onto your turf and fight on your terms, that's how you stack the cards in your favor. the f-35 is winning battles by simply existing.

low observability is still new technology

Not really. The US has been developing and operating (V)LO aircraft for decades...

I'm sure they do - and that they're good at their jobs, but low observability is still new technology, and it's not a case of "it looks good by eye, but it pulls a teeny bit to the left - nothing you can't trim out though...".

You really think that's how Military Aircraft Techs carry out a composite repair?? Hmmm, access to repair, bay service and overhaul documentation produced not only by Lockheed as well as certified repair procedures that are developed within the Airforce ensure that all repairs are carried out correctly.

Bit of background.....

My family (Father, 2 brothers and myself) have over 90yrs combined engineering experience on many military aircraft. My middle brother is currently on the RAAF's F-35 project.

Israel hasn't

My family (Father, 2 brothers and myself) have over 90yrs combined engineering experience on many military aircraft. My middle brother is currently on the RAAF's F-35 project.

I'm sure your family members are all very good at your jobs...

The point was that the Israeli military (in one of two contradictory press releases) said "The plane is safe. However, the plane is grounded since the incident and it is unclear when it will resume activity - if at all." & "The Air Force fears that despite the planned re-use of the evaporator, it is not clear whether it will retain its evasive ability."

So, the damage was reasonably significant, and Lockheed Martin said it probably required repair, and then significant testing - at the manufacturer's facilities to see if the aircraft's form and coatings were still within design parameters...

That suggests they thought it was beyond the normal technical expertise of the tech crews servicing and repairing the aircraft.

That was my - casually worded, not intentionally disparaging - point.

Yep and sometimes aircraft do have to go back to either the manufacture or major overhaul facility for repair. But your comment.....

"I'm sure they do - and that they're good at their jobs, but low observability is still new technology, and it's not a case of "it looks good by eye, but it pulls a teeny bit to the left - nothing you can't trim out though..."."

...makes absolutely no sense within a professional military maintenance environment.

Or with re-configurable FBW.

Israel hasn't

Not the point. It's an American jet supported by (decades of accumulated) American corporate knowledge on how repairs to such a jet should be undertaken.

MustangSally hit the nail on the head I suspect.