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Old 01-27-2016, 09:47 AM   #11
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Yea, don't get me wrong. I wouldn't mind a western attack helicopter. Just saying it doesn't have to be a strict counterpart of the Ka-50.
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Old 01-28-2016, 12:03 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Hrothgar View Post
The Ka-50 is an oddity and has no true western counterpart, but it is a late 1980's to early 1990's attack helicopter optimized for tank busting. Looking at it from that perspective, it's comparable to the AH-1W, AH-64A and AH-64D. That said, I'm more interested in the Mi-24 and an adversary for it. The AH-1W seems the most appropriate of the three to me.

On an unrelated note, the SA-342 and Bo-105 aren't really attack helicopters, they are armed utility choppers sort of like a UH-1 with TOWs and the Mi-2 with AT-3's.
Nailed it
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Old 01-28-2016, 12:37 AM   #13
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Despite their size, the Sa342 and Bo-105 were attack helicopters. I'm not familiar with the Bo, but the Gazelle just cannot do utility as they are no cargo/seating space in the armed version.

Going further, even the classification and use in army is "attack helicopter".
The Sa342 was the armed variant of the Sa341 and was to be used in "combat" named units. Transport and utility were achieved by Puma, Sa341 and Alouette from adjacent units.

So not much utility stuff, but I agree it also hardly compare with war machines such cobras and kamovs.



In fact, the "armed utility choppers" could apply to the Mi-24, since it is an heavily modified Mi-8 that carry weapons as well as passengers.....
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:06 AM   #14
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The UH-1 with TOWs and Mi-2 with AT-3's can't carry passengers either. And the Mi-24 has about as much in common with the Mi-8 as the AH-1 has with the UH-1. There is a very big difference between a chopper designed from day 1 as a ground attack platform and a transport chopper modified for that purpose later in life.
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwolf View Post
Despite their size, the Sa342 and Bo-105 were attack helicopters. I'm not familiar with the Bo, but the Gazelle just cannot do utility as they are no cargo/seating space in the armed version.

Going further, even the classification and use in army is "attack helicopter".
The Sa342 was the armed variant of the Sa341 and was to be used in "combat" named units. Transport and utility were achieved by Puma, Sa341 and Alouette from adjacent units.

So not much utility stuff, but I agree it also hardly compare with war machines such cobras and kamovs.



In fact, the "armed utility choppers" could apply to the Mi-24, since it is an heavily modified Mi-8 that carry weapons as well as passengers.....
The BO-105 was / is used by the German Armed Forces and many other countries. The standard armament of the 105 generally consists of 6 anti-tank missiles, 3 mounted on each side. It's an older weapon system, but an agile and dangerous attack helo. It keeps getting updated as well, so that's good.



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Old 01-29-2016, 06:24 PM   #16
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Maybe counterpart isn't the best phrase but equivalent role may be a better way of considering it.
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:57 PM   #17
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I honestly wish they wouldn't of even told us about the Cobra if it was constantly going to take a back seat to everything under the sun. Even another Russian helicopter.

The thing was announced in 2013 IIRC.

Nothing against Belsimtek, they've been doing Gods work with giving aircraft it's proper opponents and updating the F-15/Su-27. But having to wait til, I imagine, late 2017 for anything of substance on it is a drag.
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Old 01-29-2016, 07:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Hrothgar View Post
The UH-1 with TOWs and Mi-2 with AT-3's can't carry passengers either. And the Mi-24 has about as much in common with the Mi-8 as the AH-1 has with the UH-1. There is a very big difference between a chopper designed from day 1 as a ground attack platform and a transport chopper modified for that purpose later in life.
About 85%?


I kid... somewhat

When you're cramming parts for repair on and LHD that 85% commonality comes in handy... of course missions are totally different, but still...
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Old 01-29-2016, 07:28 PM   #19
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To be fair, the AH-1Z and the UH-1Y are 85% commonality of components...older versions of these aircraft were quite a bit more different. It would not surprise me if the Mi-8 and Mi-24 have even more in common than the UH-1 and AH-1.
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Old 01-29-2016, 09:17 PM   #20
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I don't think it's necessarily parts commonality that defines an aircraft's role. For instance, the Fw-190D9 uses an engine originally made for the Ju-88/188/388, but no one is going to seriously claim the Fw-190D9 is a medium bomber or that the Ju-88 is a light fighter. That's the situation with the Huey vs Cobra and Hind vs Hip. They have shared engines and shared transmissions too I think but the air frames are totally different.

The Gazelle is first and foremost a light troop transport that just happens to have some armed versions that came later on. That's very different from the AH-1G which was designed from a clean slate to blow stuff up and made use of off the shelf parts where possible. This is all a bit pointless though, as it's just what constitutes an "attack" helicopter.

Back on topic, yeah, I agree it might have been better not to say anything until they were sure they were actually going to make it in the near term. Allegedly the Mi-24 is coming after the F-5E which suggests the AH-1 or AH-64 after that since BST does like their opposing pairs (as do I). But with the F-5E, the Mi-24 has been "next" for 4 modules, so I really can't take them seriously on it. They will continue to release good modules I'm sure, but until I see a formal announcement of the Mi-24, I'm just going to assume the next one will be DCS: Flying Squirrel. Obviously the AH-1 falls into that too.

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